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Published on 07/08/2009 at Wed Jul 08 14:09.
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Kyle Orton: Hope? Fully?

Posted Wed Jul 8th by

Kudos to Frank Schwab of the Colorado Springs Gazette for this statistical revelation. Mr. Schwab wrote:

Few people remember how good Orton was over his first seven starts last season. He was efficient and in games three through seven threw for at least 199 yards every outing. The Bears lost by three points at Carolina (the second best team in the NFC last year), lost in overtime to Tampa Bay (the Buccaneers scored 10 points in the final 3:11, including a touchdown with seven seconds left, to tie) and lost on a last-second field goal at Atlanta after a heinous decision to squib kick after Orton completed what should have been the game-winning touchdown with 11 seconds left. The Bears were 4-3 with three excruciating losses to good teams, and Orton was a big reason for their success. Remember the great start Jay Cutler had last year? Compare Orton and Cutler through seven games. Denver and Chicago had a bye in Week 8:

A lot of people don’t remember Orton performing at that level, including me. One game I recall was his three touchdown game against the Eagles where he duped former safety Brian Dawkins with some clever eye movement. The reason why the first seven games is measured is because Orton injured his ankle after the seventh game. However, Frank Schwab pulled together some interesting statistics that can provide Denver fans hope, hopefully.

Kyle Orton, 2008 through seven games
1,669 yards
10 touchdowns
4 interceptions (5 games without an interception)
143 completions
230 attempts
62.2 completion percentage
7.26 per attempt
4-3 team record

Jay Cutler, 2008 through seven games
1,862 yards
13 touchdowns
7 interceptions (2 games without an interception)
163 completions
254 attempts
64.2 completion percentage
7.33 per attempt
4-3 team record

Cutler and Orton statistically are the same, but statistics can be easily skewed.

Jay Cutler had a superior receivers and offensive line but a terrible defense. Kyle Orton had nearly the opposite. The Bears had a great run defense finishing 5th in the league however they had a atrocious pass defense ranking 30th in the NFL. A better measurement of a defense in my opinion is points allowed during the season and points allowed per game. Chicago was merely average ranking 16th in both categories. The bottom line? Chicago’s defense wasn’t consistent enough as they used to be. Therefore Orton wasn’t carried by the defense as much as critics would think. (I would say Orton was carried by Matt Forte more than anything else.)

All of this is just wishful thinking. Can Orton translate his early success with a better offensive line, receivers, and coaching staff? Hopefully, but it’s just hope. Will the team be better minus one Jay Cutler and plus a Kyle Orton, Robert Ayers, and Alphonso Smith? I really hope so.

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  • DC

    Damn it must suck to be you kerry. Do you really think our team is that bad? At least we aren’t lions fans or raider fans. They have had it bad.

  • craig

    DC,

    Your right, at least we aren’t lions fans or raider fans, we’ve had it to good for 20+ years. The only thing is the last time Denver played Detriot and Oakland they lost. As a Broncos fan outside of Broncos country, this team has become more of a laughingstock this off season than Oakland or Detriot. I hate to say it but i think they both had better off seasons than Denver. Oakland actually showed their pro bowl players the money in Asomugha and Lechler and picked up key FA’s i wish the Broncos would have signed in Jeff Garcia, and Greg Ellis. Detroit not only added in the draft with Stafford, Pettigrew, and Delmas but again added FA’s i think would have been a good fit with Denver with Buchanon, Foote, Grady Jackson, Bryant Jackson, and Maurice Morris. I of course will watch every game and hopefully be wearing my B-Marsh jersey but i am prepared for this team to struggle. As much as I don’t want to, I agree with Kerry, this team is bad and I see no sign of that changing soon.

  • DC

    How do you know this team is bad? They haven’t played a down yet.

  • broncoNM

    Craig,
    Im sure its not too late to buy a stafford jersey and jump on the lions bandwagon… Im sure there is plenty of room. I refuse to believe this team is a “laughingstock” before one game has been played… start rooting for the lions and understand what a “laughingstock”team really looks like.

  • Jon Krause

    rcsodak, NICE

  • craig

    DC, broncoNM this team is bad. Games have been played, 28+ pts given up a game last year. The defense hasn’t been over hauled to the point it’s a completely new D. Maybe different coaches, different schemes but the same players. Yeah teams like Atlanta, Miami, and Baltimore can change things in one year, but their the exception. Remember before Parcells came to Miami, there was the trial and error that was Nick Saban and Cam Cameron. Atlanta, Jim Mora and Bobby Petrino, not to metion key acquisitions such as Matt Ryan, and Michael Turner and Joe Flacco with the Ravens. Those guys were an vast improvement over the previous years. Orton isn’t an improvement over Cutler and as much as I believe Moreno will be a good pro down the road, how much better will he be this year then say Peyton Hillis last year? The didn’t make any big trades or sign any big time FA’s. Dawkins might have been a good signing if they were a veteran safety away from the SB but they’re not, they’re in rebuilding mode. It stinks but like I said before, we’ve been spoiled as Broncos Fans for 20+ years. Feel free to disagree with me, but this team wasn’t good last year, with the way Pat Bowlen has handled things this off-season they have become a laughingstock and as a Broncos fan on the East Coast, Denver is being laughed at as if they were Detroit or Oakland.

  • kerry

    DC:

    how do in know the team is bad. downgrading the offense and failing to address the defensive front is a start. usually teams UPGRADE positions of importance like the QB position or the D-line not DOWNGRADE or ignore them. i mean seriously are you that much of a blind follower that it wont allow you to take a realistic look at this team?? downgrading the most important position on the field is not good. IGNORING the most important part of the defense (the d-line) isnt making the team better. and dont give me that “oh they havent played a game yet” this team was bad last year and DOWNGRADED the QB position while ignoring the defensive front.

    and yeah we arent Lions or Raiders fans. but right now everyone else in the league laughs at the Broncos like they are the Lions. i mean seriously who the hell dumps a top flite Qb without even coaching him?? who the hell does stupid shit like that? oh thats right, McDaniels does. yeah so Cutler asked for a trade, well McDaniels could have exhibited TRUE coaching ability and leadership by NOT trading Cutler and working with him during camps. McDaniels dumps him instead of confronting and fixing the situation. and making a couple phone calls doesnt constitue fixing or addressing the problem.

    THATS how i know the team is bad. our coach dumps a player at the first sign of adversity instead of working with and fixing the situation. if he would have worked with Cutler during the mandatory sessions and couldnt make it work THEN trade him. but dont trade a top notch QB before even coaching him.

  • Dean

    Craig,

    I agree, I think Jeff Garcia would have been a perfect fit here in McDaniels system. All the post where people say this team is going to be better because Orton is accurate, smart, and a winner, which I believe none of that to be true, Jeff Garcia is all of that. Other than a couple rough seasons in Detroit and Cleveland, he has won in SF, Philly and Tampa. Unlike Orton has actual playoff experience, and is a accurate and smart QB. I know he is up there an age and would not of been the QB of the future, i think must of us agree neither is Orton. I think he would have been the stop gap for a few years until McDaniels can find and groom his replacement. I think this system is very difficult to grasp and will take a few years before a QB can master it, alah Brady and Cassels. If they are to trade Brandon Marshall, I think they’ll trade him to a contender, like Baltimore, Washington, New York Giants, or Arizona, because I think they’ll give up more b/c B-Marsh might be the one missing piece. If so, they probably won’t trade an established player, alah Ngata. It will most likely be draft picks and i heard a first round would do it. If thats they case they should try to package someone like Troy Smith/John Beck/Colt Brennan, or Leinart. Hope dreams maybe, but none of those guys have had a full season to work with. Orton has a shot to start of strong but if he looks bad it could get real ugly looking at the schedule.

  • broncobobmeridian

    Kerry- How did the team down grade on offense? You cant judge Orton, until he plays a full season with the same players Baby Jay did. As for the Defense, Nolan must like what he see’s. PS- Cutler isnt a top flite QB. He was ranked 16th at 86%. Thats with a great line in front of him and great receivers.

  • http://myspace.com/paraleipsis jchase8410

    DJ has played all three of the linebacker positions in the 43 defense, and done a great job in all me them. Remember the good seasons he had playing in positions that he was uncomfortable with. He is now in a position that he is comfortable with and excited to play in. i personally believe that he has earned some respect. I love how you play the “maybe he will” card when it suits you, but the FACT that we will suck this year is set in stone in your mind.

  • http://myspace.com/paraleipsis jchase8410

    those of you who continue to say that the new staff has completely ignored the DL is either blind or stupid. They may not have gotten the people that you wanted, but really there is only so much that can be done in ONE offseason. They brought in guys like Fields who may not be your favorite, but Nolan thinks enough me him to sign him. He was set to be the starter in SF, but due to an injury found himself a rotational player. They got rid of the dead weight on the line, and brought in a few guys who may fit

  • http://myspace.com/paraleipsis jchase8410

    continuing on…They drafted a versatile guy who can play DE or OLB. The fact that they went out and got guys that you might not have can in no way be translated into they IGNORED the DL.

  • broncobobmeridian

    jchase8410- Thanks for stating the facts. The Defense is going to be much better next year. Remember, San Fran had the 13th ranked defense last year. Nolan and staff will get the most out of our players.
    Teams we played last year had our defensive game plan so figured out it was sick. Remember the Quote by Bly.

  • http://myspace.com/paraleipsis jchase8410

    broncobob…I do remember the quote, but I honestly couldn’t even discern that there was ever a defensive game plan last year.

  • DC

    Craig, how is it that they “The defense hasn’t been over hauled to the point it’s a completely new D. Maybe different coaches, different schemes but the same players.” We have 2 new safeties. A new slot CB and starting CB. At least 2 new starting DL. 2 new starting LB. I don’t see your point. This D will be a hellofalot better than it was last year.

  • DC

    *the

  • broncobobmeridian

    jchase8410…. I think the game plan was to count to 5 mississippi, before they could cross the line of scrimage.

  • broncobobmeridian

    DC….. The only starters from last year, that will start for sure is Champ, DJ, and maybe Thomas.

  • OC Bronco

    Just because people on this site think our Broncs will suck next year doesn’t mean that they aren’t loyal fans. The fact is we may well suck. Realistically speaking with our schedule it could be a long year.

    Hopefully our upgrade at the Running Back and Tight End make up for the trade of our QB. And HOPEFULLY, our new QB can manage a game in this system better than Cutler did last year. Hopefully. Because if not, we will be laughed at weekly for getting rid of him. But who cares? I don’t think he was a team player and I think our Coach showed balls and let everyone know there was a new sherriff in town (“and his name is Reggie Hammond. Ya all be cool”) and sent the message that this game is won by teams not individuals. I like the philosophy but we will have to see. Talent + Team + Coaching seems like an obvious winning combination to me.

    Defensively we picked up some nice players and moving to this new scheme with better coaches will also HOPEFULLY make us better on Defense (which clearly has been overhauled). But NT is a glaring weakness right now. Could Powell be our savior? Possibly. I like him but he is a bit undersized and may not be our starter. But I like some of you find myself looking at guys who weren’t even drafted by 32 teams through 7 rounds like Baker, Pedesclaux and Davis hoping they can contribute. And that speaks volumes for the talent, or lack there of, that we have at this time.

  • DC

    I think doom will start, hopefully, he’s our only decent pass rusher.

    Base 3-4
    Powell, Feilds, Thomas?
    Ayers, DJ, Andra, Doom

    Nickel
    Ayers, Feild, Thomas?, Doom
    DJ, Woodyard

    What do guys think?

  • DC

    It wouldn’t surprise me to see Ev P or Rulon starting at DE’s. I hope they get a shot.

  • broncoNM

    DC
    Im real interested to see if any of our undrafted rookies pan out (davis, baker, robinson, Pedescleaux)… I hope powell has some inpact and makes the rotation but i would also like to see kenny peterson at DE. I love the idea of thomas at DE…He is a big body with great athletism.
    If doom doesnt workout what about woodyard in the base. He is undersized but he makes plays.

    34 base:
    KP, Fields, Thomas
    ayers, dj, andra, woodyard

    If rulan davis and Pedescleaux make the roster they can rotate at DE and powell and baker can rotate with fields at DT.

  • broncoNM

    Antonio Cromartie is eying travis henry’s record… the NFL may want to invest in some sex-ed classes.

    “Coming off a disappointing season in 2008, Antonio Cromartie blames at least five paternity suits for keeping his head out of the game.

    At this pace, he’s going to going to shatter the records of Travis Henry and Shawn Kemp. Cromartie, who is not married or engaged, has at least seven kids in five states. The 2007 Pro Bowler is now fully recovered from a fractured hip that hampered him throughout last season.”

    http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jul/12/1s12chargers01169/?chargers

  • Craig

    DC,

    This team has switched some names around but are essentially the same team. The didn’t overhaul the D, just changed personel about as much as most teams do every year. Look at the stats on this team with who replaced them. Dawkins is a vast improvement and possibly Andra Davis though Nate Webster performed just as well last year. Ayers and Alphonso bring hope, but they’re only rooks. Just the simple fact that there is possible talk of undrafted FA’s possibly starting or getting decent playing time just shows where the team is… Guys like Fields, Reid, and McBean are guys you add for depth, not starters. Even Jarvis Moss is still on this team. Look at these stats and tell me how we overhauled this D with the guys they brought in…

    FS Marlon McCree has 16 career INTS and 448 career tackles
    Renaldo Hill has 15 career INTs and 474 career tackles
    SS Brian Dawkins way better than no need to bring up stats here
    Marquand Manuel
    CB Dre Bly 40 career INTs and 390 career tackles
    Andre Goodman 12 career INTs and 232 career tackles
    MLB Nate Webster 319 career tackles and 4 career sacks (last year 76 tackles and 2 sacks in 13 games)
    Andra Davis 641 career tackles and 8.5 career sacks(last year 90 tackles and 0 sacks in 16 games)
    DT Dewayne Robertson 278 carrer tackles and 16 career sacks
    Ronald Fields 75 career tackles and 1 career sack
    DE Ebenezer Ekuban 224 career tackles and 36.5 career sacks
    Darrell Reid 98 career tackles and 2.5 career sacks

  • DC

    I see where your coming from now. Lets hope Brian Dawkins can pump these guys up. He did an excellent job in philly.

  • http://cdn0.sbnation.com/profile_images/111140/La_La_Mascot.jpg WhidbeyBronco

    rcsodak you’re right. coffee

  • roshon2411

    Craig,

    Wow someone actually brought some info to the table to back up their argument instead of wishful thinking. I think you’re completely right. Other than Dawkins most of these guys aren’t as good or worse than most of the players from last year. I also agree with Bly statement that he was the scapegoat. He never was or never will be as good as Champ or even a pro-bowler but he can hold his own. He thrives on the DL getting pressure in the face of the QB and didn’t have that here in Denver. Hopefully, this D can change just with Dawkins and the scheme. The key for me, will be Andra Davis. He really needs to step it up, this D has lacked an attitude in the middle since Wilson. I think it’s all for not this year, and hope next year the can bring in the next Atwater and Wilson on D and McDaniels finds a star QB in the making. It won’t undress the DL issue but i think once S & MLB are filled we be able to put together and bunch of washed up hand me downs, like their SB run of Neil Smith, Lodish, Michael Dean, and Alfred Williams.

  • Nisse

    hey, Darrell Reid is playing OLB.
    http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=9141
    So who is on our DL? Our DL is starting to look pretty anonymous with no names that makes you think “ohh, this will do”.
    Im pretty scared of kerry being right about the importance of great DL members.
    Will a lousy DL do alright with the right playcalling and talent on other positions?

  • Nisse

    guess im infected with the kerry flu :(
    hope i get well soon :D

  • roshon2411

    Nisse,

    The last I heard are D-line was looking like…

    LE Ryan McBean with Carlton Powell backing up
    NT Ronnie Fields with Marcus Thomas backing up
    RE Kenny Peterson with Darrell Reid backing up

    This could all change with the FA’s rooks and a couple other no names in camp. I think a DL doesn’t have to be saturated with #1 picks to do well but this isn’t looking promising.

  • roshon2411

    sorry *our* D-Line

  • http://myspace.com/paraleipsis jchase8410

    bringing up career stats on guys who haven’t had the same length of careers does not prove any point. Plus, the guys wins one year stats you put up (2008 stats) actually performed better, thus gusting your point. The DL “starters” that someone refered to are just penciled in names. McD has stated that the defensive line will not be evaluated fully until training camp when they actually get pads on and start hitting. Don’t let Kerry get inside your heads, although he is pretty headstrong…He is respectable

  • kerry

    hey BroncoBob:

    Mike Singletary took over last year for San Fran and THATS the reason why the defense became better. Nolan was fired during the season and if you go and take a look, Nolans defense was a joke before Singletary took over last year.

  • Craig

    Jchase,

    Marlon McCree and Renaldo Hill each are entering their 9th Season.
    Dry Bly is entering his 11th season and Andre Goodman his 8th, I don’t think he’ll make up the 28 career ints in 3 years. I think we can all agree Dawkins’ career will/is better then Manuels even though he has only played 8 seasons and Dawkins 14. But for those who’s career aren’t the same don’t want to compare career numbers just go back to last years.

    Brian Dawkins 75 tackles 1 ints
    Marquand Manuel 83 tackles 0 ints

    Andre Goodman 39 tackles 5 ints
    Dre Bly 62 tackles 2ints

    Nate Webster 76 tackles 2 sacks
    Andra Davis 90 tackles 0 sacks

    Dewayne Robertson 22 tackles 1.5 sacks
    Ronnie Fields 19 tackles 0 sacks

    Ebeneze Ekuban 38 tackles 5 sacks
    Darrell Reid 30 tackles 2 sacks

    This team was horrible last year, and in my judgement the guys they brought in aren’t any better than who they replaced. New coaches and schemes might help but not with this crew. Besides if the gameplan was all it took to win, then Nolan scheme in San Fran would of worked.

  • kerry

    jchase:

    so you are confident in Fields Reid and Thomas?? we have one of the worst D-lines in football. and saying Fields was gonna start for San Fran is like saying he is the best player with down syndrome. starting for a shitty team doesnt mean you become better when maybe starting for another shitty team.

  • kerry

    Craig.

    very nice breakdown of the players brought in. the stat comparison really shows that we didnt upgrade at all, just brought in different players with the same or even worse stats then the previous year.

    of course you will get the whole “oh well you cant compare last years stats because we havent played a game this year” bullshit from most but it shows quite accurately the players we brought in arent some upgrade. we definetly dont have any players except Dawkins that defenses have to gameplan around.

  • roshon2411

    Jchase, We know the DL is just penciled in for now, one being they don’t have one standout player. There’s no speculation on the O-line. But it’s not like Denver is going to pickup someone like Casey Hampton b/t now and opening week.

    The DL roster could be mistaken for an Arena Team Roster..

    Marcus Thomas
    Darrell Reid
    Carlton Powell
    Everette Pedescleaux
    J’vonne Parker
    Ronnie Fields
    Matthais Askew
    Kenny Peterson
    Ryan McBean
    Rulon Davis
    Chris Baker
    Nic Clemons

    Half these guys weren’t even good enough to get drafted.

  • http://BroncoTalk.net Mr.East

    roshon,

    Neither was
    DT: Ed Johnson
    DE: Paul Spicer
    LB: Antonio Pierce
    LB: Gary Brackett
    LB: James Harrison
    CB: Nick Harper

    I guess no one should look into UDFA huh?

    Also several quality DTs are low rounders. Jason Ferguson was a 7th rounder.

    Marcus Thomas by the way might finally be used the way he should have been. Thomas is a quality DT who’s been switching from system to system ever since he’s breathed the Rocky Mountain Air.

  • roshon2411

    East,

    Congratulations you named 6 undrafted FA’s out of the hundreds signed over the past couple years. I didn’t say being UDFA means you can’t make the team or even become a starter. But there is a reason 1st round picks are more cherished than a 7th round picks. Tony Romo was UDFA, should we just sign someone off the street to QB this team or trade all our early round picks for 6th rounders because TD was picked in the 6th? One of these guys might play 10 years or even make a pro bowl or two. But the odds are against that…

    Also, I still do hold out hope for Marcus Thomas, he has potential and has kept his nose clean but he is probably our best DL and thats pretty sad.

  • http://BroncoTalk.net Mr.East

    I’m not saying some or even any of those guys will be probowlers. I’m just saying you can’t speculate on them at all. This is why I hate the offseason, I’m not one for guessing around. I like to see the action and dodge the BS. The reeks of BS.

  • roshon2411

    East,

    Come on, you just said Marcus Thomas is a quality DT. Isn’t that speculation? I’m sure his 37 tackles and zero sacks can’t be the sign that he’s a quality DT. What about your last two postings, Orton and Fields, the offseason all speculation, if you want to dodge the BS then don’t post until the season starts. You just don’t like negative speculation.

  • walkr

    guys, good luck with orton. chicago hates QB’s. jay cutler will soon be on the list. rex made it after he lost the SB – which has only been 20+ years. kyle – chicago never liked him. he played last year because the fans hated rex. we have no recievers, they drop balls, and yet its the QB’s fault – never the DFense, never the coaches.
    Kyle is a decent QB, he has shown signs of being good. i think jay is naturally better, but it seems the teams traded players to get a fresh start at QB. time will tell

  • http://www.markemmanuel.com Mark Rodriguez

    As a Bears fan, I can attest to the team not properly grooming their quarterbacks. I wanted him to stay in Chicago but he will not become a good quarterback in the Bears system. Give Kyle some time. He’s a competent and hard working quarterback that will earn his keep. He showed composure and patience. He has potential and I wish him the best (which is why I found this article).

  • http://broncotalk.net Kyle

    Thanks for the comments Mark. A lot of Bears fans have shown Orton support since the move. Gives us Broncos fans hope. Best of luck this season!

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