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Published on 07/08/2009 at Wed Jul 08 14:09.
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Kyle Orton: Hope? Fully?

Posted Wed Jul 8th by

Kudos to Frank Schwab of the Colorado Springs Gazette for this statistical revelation. Mr. Schwab wrote:

Few people remember how good Orton was over his first seven starts last season. He was efficient and in games three through seven threw for at least 199 yards every outing. The Bears lost by three points at Carolina (the second best team in the NFC last year), lost in overtime to Tampa Bay (the Buccaneers scored 10 points in the final 3:11, including a touchdown with seven seconds left, to tie) and lost on a last-second field goal at Atlanta after a heinous decision to squib kick after Orton completed what should have been the game-winning touchdown with 11 seconds left. The Bears were 4-3 with three excruciating losses to good teams, and Orton was a big reason for their success. Remember the great start Jay Cutler had last year? Compare Orton and Cutler through seven games. Denver and Chicago had a bye in Week 8:

A lot of people don’t remember Orton performing at that level, including me. One game I recall was his three touchdown game against the Eagles where he duped former safety Brian Dawkins with some clever eye movement. The reason why the first seven games is measured is because Orton injured his ankle after the seventh game. However, Frank Schwab pulled together some interesting statistics that can provide Denver fans hope, hopefully.

Kyle Orton, 2008 through seven games
1,669 yards
10 touchdowns
4 interceptions (5 games without an interception)
143 completions
230 attempts
62.2 completion percentage
7.26 per attempt
4-3 team record

Jay Cutler, 2008 through seven games
1,862 yards
13 touchdowns
7 interceptions (2 games without an interception)
163 completions
254 attempts
64.2 completion percentage
7.33 per attempt
4-3 team record

Cutler and Orton statistically are the same, but statistics can be easily skewed.

Jay Cutler had a superior receivers and offensive line but a terrible defense. Kyle Orton had nearly the opposite. The Bears had a great run defense finishing 5th in the league however they had a atrocious pass defense ranking 30th in the NFL. A better measurement of a defense in my opinion is points allowed during the season and points allowed per game. Chicago was merely average ranking 16th in both categories. The bottom line? Chicago’s defense wasn’t consistent enough as they used to be. Therefore Orton wasn’t carried by the defense as much as critics would think. (I would say Orton was carried by Matt Forte more than anything else.)

All of this is just wishful thinking. Can Orton translate his early success with a better offensive line, receivers, and coaching staff? Hopefully, but it’s just hope. Will the team be better minus one Jay Cutler and plus a Kyle Orton, Robert Ayers, and Alphonso Smith? I really hope so.

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  • Jon Krause

    there stats really aren’t the same jay is a much better QB period
    but im not bashing horton i have hope 4 him…

    Go BRONCOS!!! =D

  • roshon2411

    yeah Chicago might have been 16th in scoring defense but Denver was 30th. Lets see how he does when he has to score 30+ a game to win. Orton’s a bum, the guy threw for under 200 yards a game 9 times last year. He’s only 300 yard game in his career was against and 0-16 Lions team. Starting the season with this guy is about as brilliant as trying to start the season with Bubby Brister. I will give him props on the T-Shirt, he’s might not be a total douche.

  • DHB

    It seems to me Orton has the markings of being a competent and intelligent QB. We are kidding ourselves if we think Orton is even close to as physically gifted as Cutler, and it doesn’t really matter which one is more successful next year. Orton is no savior, but he’s probably not the bum he is made out to be by disgruntled fans. Give him a shot, and let’s just enjoy some football.

    In other QB thoughts… That guy they picked up late in the draft, Bradstander or Banister or Barister, whatever it really is. Does anyone know much about him? I’m not clinging to diamond-in-the-rough delusions, but I heard he got his BA and MA in five years and started three of those years. There has to be a story in a guy like that somewhere.

  • Andpark

    Well I got around to watching a Bears Packers OT Dec. 22nd game I had taped on NFL replay and Orton was okay. It is hard to tell his full potential with the O line always collapsing around him and terrible receivers (at least 4 drops, 1 tagging the WR right on the numbers). Orton had 2 INT’s one that was retarded that he threw right to the wrong guy. It was cold as shit.

    Overall though I came away thinking that although he doesn’t have Cutler’s arm strength or competitive fire he did look poised, moved the ball around by eyeing the whole field and had some great plays in the 4th and OT to win the game.

    Orton is our boy and I think he is in such a better situation to succeed we can really see what he is made of.

  • http://BroncoTalk.net Mr.East

    I’m not saying he’s going to be Jay Cutler reincarnate. I’m saying he’s looking like he won’t be a Dan Orlovsky. Orton’s first 7 games we’re good and hopefully with a better surrounding we’ll see some solid QB play.

  • jvill

    It really is pointless to bitch about Orton at this point. The stats say he’s competent. Everything else is a variable.

    I agree with DHB and Andpark, he’s our boy for now so let’s just enjoy some football. This offseason really is bringing out the most whiny Saturday morning armchair QBs.

  • robtink242

    i’m sorry theres no way we compare cutler and orton. I’m growing fond of orton although and i wish him the best. but i really would like to know who is tom bradstarter.

  • Jon Krause

    this has notin 2 do w/ anyting.. but john’s son (the one that quit football — yeah quit) looks like a party boy: http://twitter.com/Jelway1

  • Jon Krause

    yo BT somebody is pretending be me! :O i guess theres no way to tell that? i dont rly disagree w/ comment #8 but would u delete it? cuz that aint me!

  • Kawike

    Hopefully the Defense will be solid enough to support a game manager rather than a gunslinger.

  • kerry

    let the kool-aid flow! i dont remember anyone saying “hey lets get Kyle Orton” when the Cutler trade was on, but after 3 months of kool-aid he is Peyton Manning. PPFFFFFTTTTT. it would a decent addition IF we had a defense that didnt resemble a block of swiss cheese. Orton wont be able to outscore an opponent for us and with our lovely pre-school defense that is gonna spell doom. better weapons around a QB doesnt mean that QB will be better. just ask Tarvaris Jackson. you put a wind up toy engine in a Ferrari the Ferrari may look nice, but its still a piece of shit that cant run.

  • kerry

    at least Orton is wearing a cool shirt of the legend Jim Morrison. ill give him credit for that.

  • anthony33

    Orton is a stop gap, similar to what Plummer brought to the table. Hopefully he can produce like results, which were adequate, but certainly not pro-bowl caliber. Gotta find the long term answer. We need Cutler to have a horrendous season and end up with a top 5-10 pick.

    I think the defense is going to be much better simply because they can’t possibly be worse than last year…can they? New DC, new coaches, new philosophy, new attitude and a bunch of new players. More than willing to give them a chance to find their identity as a defense. Hope like hell it works out. It sure beats Shanny’s plan, which was to keep Slowik and add the one player that was going to turn things around. That worked well.

  • Anthony

    All I have to say is that Jake Plummer didn’t even have half the talent that Jay Cutler did and neiher does Kyle Orton, but the difference is that those guys win games and when the pressure mounts they don’t let it get to them. How many times last year would we come flying out of the gates only to stall time and time again. Orton is going to be fine. He’s not going to put our defense in the awful situations that Cutler would he will protect the football. Orton won’t have to outscore everyone. We are going to control the clock with the next great NFL running back Knowshon Moreno.

    You can all thank Mr. Shanahan for the defensive personnel that we have within our front seven, what a great evaluator of talent. Everyone criticized McDaniels for not drafting front seven players early in the draft. Look what happen in ’07 when Shanny reached for Moss, Crowder, and Marcus Thomas. That draft set us back 3 years.

  • http://broncotalk.net Kyle

    Sidenote: If the twitter panel on the right sidebar look like crap, hit Shift+F5.

  • kerry

    Anthony:

    the next great NFL RB?? put the kool-aid down ok. the guy hasnt taken a snap in the NFL so he isnt the next great anything.

  • ChuckD

    Anyone else seen many games at Soldier Field? I’ve only been to one and that was about 6 years ago but I remember the wind was swirling around and I was thinking it def didnt seem like a passing friendly stadium. Not sure if it’s better since the stadium was redone.

  • http://Broncotalk Ben

    hey just tossin this in there… i read on espn that former chief patrick surtain is really close 2 being a bronco. he seems a little washed up but can maybe add a spark 2 the secondary and work as coach 2 smith, bell, etc.

  • kerry

    Ben:

    why dont you post that link for the rest of us to read.

  • Brandocommando

    Cutler is a better qb than orton hands down. Cutler may be a much bigger whiner off the field but Orton still cannot compare when it comes to physical abilities or the field presence that is necessary to be a top qb in the NFL. Watch the video on nfl.com ( http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d810c7b09&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true ) (hopefully the link works) but they compare cutler and orton through game tape and its pretty clear who is the better qb they shit on orton the whole time. Im over losing cutler but orton is not, and never will be, the answer. just give the ball to knowmo this year and pray the bears loose enough games that we can get Bradford or Mccoy next year

  • nisse

    brandocammando, with 2 clips from a gametape you can get any qb to look good, and any QB to look bad. with that said, i loved cutler everytime he booted and throw a TD to a recever in dubble cover, he did it outstanding. but that isnt what mcd is looking for in a QB at all.
    sure, cutler could turn out to be a great pocket QB, but so could orton, so why not get some extra picks in the draft?
    maybe McDs system will suck, but that wont be becouse of cutler not being here.

    thats all i have to say, im not a football genius, im not even from the states, so maybe im totaly wrong here, but i cant se why the cutler move was that bad of a move, if you look at the outcome so far.

  • http://www.search-this.com mark

    Wow, CBS Sports has the Broncos D ranked 28th… Nice, we beat out 4 teams. That’s improving…

    http://sfb2003.football.cbssports.com/players/rankings

  • broncoNM

    nisse-
    I couldnt have put it better myself. McD was not looking to coach a young favre who throws into double coverage and tight windows. I still think McD didnt try that hard to keep Cutler because he didnt want him all that badly. McD wants a QB to believe in the system and play by the rules…Cutler has LOADS of talent but he is a gunslinger.
    As Andpark stated Orton is our boy (atleast for this year) so might as well see what he’s got.
    East-
    I agree. I understand that 7 games is not an entire season but it is a good sample to show that he is capable of producing “solid” QB play. As stated in the article no one is going to argue that orton is better than cutler but if he can rely on surrounding players and keep his cool i think he can control enough and do enough to win games. Orton does not worry me as much as our defense. They go hand and hand because for orton to have any success the defense will have to be better. Orton will have much better talent around him this year to prove his case as a starting QB in this league. A month till preseason. July could not end soon enough!

  • Andpark

    Brandocommando_
    NFL Network dude keeps talking about how much shorter Orton (6’4″) is then Brady (6’4″) Cassel (6’4″) and Bledsoe (6’5″)? He shows 3 throws by Cutler, 1 that is retarded double coverage that Marshall saves his ass on and one from Cutlers strong side. The Orton throws are off his weak side and shows how lazy and terrible Orton’s WR’s are.

    Okay for sure Orton is not as physically gifted as Cutler, but Orton is not that bad. Got to be in area of Cassel. You watch all the Cassel highlights from last year and it runs like a Moss highlight reel. Marshall, Gaffney and Royal are far from who Orton dealt with last year.

    Mark_
    Your link doesn’t work but not that I give a shit what Prisco thinks of us anyways. Absolutely no way are we the 28th team in this league, give me a break. You see the Prisco top 50? Westbrook isn’t even on there? I think CBS NFL coverage and FF talk is run by 8 year old girls.

  • jcampb72

    Does anyone think Cassel is going to be our QB next year? I do.

  • roshon2411

    13 TO’s last year, that’s why Denver’s D is ranked 28th. They need to improve in that area or it will be a long season.

  • http://myspace.com/paraleipsis jchase8410

    thats true Roshon…But that seems to be the main focus of Nolan’s defense this season. I don’t think that Denver’s D is going to be as bad as people are making them out to be. They will at very least be much more aggressive, and have a gameplan.

  • kerry

    they have our defense ranked so low for a reason. if anyone actually does some breakdown as to why its ranked low then they would see the reason.

    1.new scheme and new coaches. a reason why the defense was terrible under Shanahan because players had to change coaches every year. and guess what everybody a new coach AND a new scheme. yet NOW we are gonna just magically become better? PFFTT.

    2. the lack of a talented D-line. i mean really, Ron Fields, Darrell Reid and Marcus Thomas inspire confidence that the run stuffing will be better? no. and not to mention we have no NT. Chris Baker is not gonna walk in and be some savior of the D-line this year and thinking so is just dillusional.

    3. LB crew maybe solid but not dominant. Dumervil is gonna be a situational pass rusher with Ayers coming off the other side. i dont even think Dumervil will be starting. is Davis gonna get 90 tackles like he did with Cleveland? possibly. DJ is changing positions again. and everybody wonders why he hasnt become more then a decent LB. Moss isnt even running with the first or second team and he may not even be on this team come preseason. Crowder?? who knows.

    4. secondary seems improved. cant say it actually is until they play. Champ gonna stay healthy? Dawkins gonna stay healthy? both are old, especially Dawkins. Dawkins is not a ball hawking safety. Renaldo Hill?? Who?? Goodman may be a serviceable CB. Smith is a nickelback and a rookie. McBath, Bruton will be ST players. Barrett?? who knows. with all the drafting and signing of safeties he may not even make the team. im sure someone will come back with the old tired argument about Barrett being a “Physical Freak” well that doesnt mean he is a good FOOTBALL PLAYER. he may not even be there come the season. maybe a ST player.

    the bottomline is this team is changing Scheme, coaches and has alot of question marks. no upgrades on the D-line in terms of actual talent. just an undrafted free agent and a couple of free agents who wouldnt even start for most other teams.

    and everybody says, “oh were gonna focus on getting turnovers” well see theres a problem with that. saying we are gonna focus on getting turnovers and ACTUALLY getting them are two VERY different things. easier said then done. EVERY team focuses on getting sacks and turnovers yet every year most teams dont get them. saying it is easy, doing it…………..yeah not so easy.

    so its pretty obvioius why this team is ranked so low in defense. and i still laugh at how people say, “oh we will be better because we cant get worse” well that still doesnt mean we are gonna be better. we could very well end up the same ranking this year as last year. and saying we will be better because we cant get worse is what Lions fans say. its a desperation claim to say the team will be better just because they cant get worse.

  • http://broncotalk.net Kyle

    I think the scheme will be more aggressive than it was under Slowik. I don’t know if we have the talent to execute this pressure system effectively, but the talent sucked last year too. Just in the attitude change it’ll be better.

  • http://bandit Dan Myers

    @Kerry, as usual the pessimist. Realist he will say. I have a optomistic view to every pessimist view you had.

    New coaches and scheme, granted change is tough. BUT this change brings quality coaches that know how to coach and teach. Add a win just for that.

    Talented DL. I believe that each player needs to find his position, coach and scheme. I do not know if Fields or Reid or Baker or Thomas or the rest will be good. Just like you do not know that they will be bad. BUT I do believe that GOOD coaches bring out the best in players. Add one win.

    Oh the LB’s. DJ loves the idea of JACK. Gotcha there. Can Crowder or Moss or Dumervil drop in coverage, you and I REALLY do not know. BUT the jugs gun being used in the OTA’s says that their hands except the football, none seem to have stone hands. Even here.

    DB’s is were you have a BIG problem because of age, right? Lets see what Brian has left first. Hill and Goodman made the Miami transition pretty great, right? Plus the Phonze may be ROY.
    See your whole premise is “saying it does not make it so” BUT by practicing it does make you better. Add one game here.

    So as you can see Kerry, a glass half full will always be accepted well before a glass half empty. LOL with your trolling.

  • Jon Krause

    Okay kids, Jay Cutler is ranked #5 of all QB in NFL! Above phillis rivers, and way above Orton, no more talk who’s better…

    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d8113d1c3/Top-5-Quarterbacks

    Warren Sapp does know what he is talking about.

  • broncoNM

    Orton has shown good decision making and accuracy. Before people get too worked up about his arm strength realize that cutler had 37 pass attempts last year of 30+ yards and out of those 37 he completed 4 of them.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=9597
    Orton is capable of producing a good mid range passing game which is what McD is looking for… Cassel last year under McD had 20 attempts of 30+ yards and completed 2 of them and thats with randy moss on the other end of those throws.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=8644
    I actually caught these stats on another forum. McD & co. were probably more concerned with Ortons accuracy more than his arm strength. I think that this system will fit ortons needs… Orton will be fine with short and mid range routes. Orton is going to love it in denver under McD.

  • roshon2411

    With a career passing pct. of 55.3, i wouldn’t say Orton has shown good accuracy. With 30 tds, and 27 ints in his career i don’t think that falls under the good decision making category either. You know who has very similar numbers in their career? JP Losman and Patrick Ramsey, I don’t think anyone would say they’re QB’s who have shown good decision making and accuracy.

  • broncobobmeridian

    Warren Sapp doesnt know SH#T! He left out several QB’s that are much better than baby Jay. Start with maybe Big Ben , Kurt Warner, Farve, Rivers, to name a few. Everyone needs to wait and see how baby Jay does under someone other than Shanny.

  • http://ttmt.net T-Money

    You guys just need to chill. Why dont you just accept the fact that we have a mid range QB and just be happy that the season is right around the corner.

  • http://broncotalk.net Joe

    LOL to get back to defensive talk, have any of you guy read this? This made me man-chuckle. Bly is a b****.
    http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/07/06/roundup-cb-bly-says-he-was-the-scapegoat-in-denver/

  • OC Bronco

    Dan – Kerry is pretty much on the money. Although I hope your glass half-full theory is more accurate, his response answers the question of why we are ranked 28. I see improvement as well but until the game is played we won’t know. And the fact that we mention Moss or Crowder in an argument is another reason we are ranked 28th. I won’t put them in anything besides the garbage can until they prove otherwise.

    Jon K – The end of that video says it all. Sapp put Cutler in there because of Eisen who smokes Cutler’s pole. Cutler is and will be a good qb in this league no doubt. We all know that. But come on. Rivers is hands down a better qb than Cutler so far. That could all change but right now it’s no question who gets it done in the 4th qtr and who manages a game better. Sapp knows that and just wants tv time so he allows Eisen to put Cutler in the conversation.

    T-Money – Good point. Out.

  • broncobobmeridian

    Joe-
    Some of the comments made by Bly I agree with. Slowik should have been fired. His system sucked, and very predictable. It will be interesting to see what kind of talent we have with our new coaching staff. As for Bly being the scap-goat, no one took more heat then Webster.

  • broncoNM

    roshon
    your correct… Orton’s career stats are not amazing. I was referring more to last season… specifically this 7 game stretch that this thread is about. He is cabable of being accurate (62% comp, 10 td, 4 int). I understand that this was only 7 games but he was able produce these numbers with less talent around him. As i stated before im sure accuracy was more of a concern than arm strenth.

  • OC Bronco

    BroncoNM – Good stat but I think he was actually 4 of 27. Not at all great and compared to Rivers – 10/24, Cassell – 2/20, Romo – 11/28, McNabb – 2/24, Roethlisberger – 7/24, Delhomme – 12/23 Rodgers – 11/28 and Manning – 7/28.

    I posted all the players I looked up and he only bested Cassell and McNabb. Anyway, it doesn’t matter now because he isn’t our QB and Orton won’t take many shots downfield in this O.

  • kerry

    Dan:

    see i responded to the reason why our defense was ranked 28th. you just posted your Kool-aid speak about HOPING it will be better instead of discussing why its ranked 28th. you can hope it will be better. but that still doesnt change the fact about the 28th ranking. there isnt a headline that says “the Broncos are 28th in defensive rankings but we all think they can be better” oh and because DJ loves the idea of playing JACK LB, doesnt mean anything. im sure Nate Webster LOVED playing MLB last year, but did that make him better?? no. not even close.

    but seriously “Talented D-line”?????!!!! dude what the hell are you looking at? Fields and Reid havent done jackshit in this league, Thomas has NEVER played the 3-4 and you call all of that talent??! PFFFFTTTTTT. stop being a blind follower. really. being optimistic is one thing, you are way beyond that all the way into the blind kool-aid drunken stupor where everything is so great and Kyle Orton is Peyton Manning.

  • Go_Denver

    If you ask me, Orton doesn’t quite stack up to Cutler’s level of talent, but he’s still a decent QB. And when you put a decent QB with recievers like Royal, Stokley, Marshall (hopefully), Scheffler, and Graham, as well as an offensive line containing players like Clady and Wieggman, you can still have a considerably good offense. And if the defense improves this year I think we’ll do really well. GO BRONCOS!!!

  • http://myspace.com/paraleipsis jchase8410

    Kerry…I totally agree that the DL is better than they get credit for. Thomas is a very athletic, physically talented player, and with one of the best DL coaches in the NFL it isn’t unrealistic to say he could produce. I also have hope for Powell to be a contributor. He is a monster of a man. Yep i know he missed the whole year with an injury, but he is another talented guy that people overlook. I’m not saying they will be the most dominant line in the NFL, but they COULD be pretty good.

  • http://myspace.com/paraleipsis jchase8410

    and…Did you really just compare DJ to Webster? Really Kerry? DJ is probably the most solid tackler on our entire defense. Webster isn’t in DJ’s league when it comes to making plays, and that comment just made you look even more ridiculous than usual.

  • gringo-dancer

    fist let me start by stating that I have been enjoying this site for about 3 months. One thing that i would have to state for my first post here is we all became bronco fans for one reason or another. That being said in my own life experience 25+ years as a bronco fan and my interactions with other bronco fans has given me this insite to the main core or belief of the true fan. We like the good guys!!!

    This is something i have seen being ripped away from us since the release of Plumber. We seemed to have gone away from what had drawn all of us to be fans. Cutler and Marshal are just the type of cancers the broncos need to rid them selfs of. I would be willing to tke a few less wins if it means i can injoy the wins we do get with hardworking, good guys.

    This is finally something I see as a possibility with the people we are bringing in such as Horton and Sims. Might not have the arm of Cutler but have a mind set i and most bronco fans i have met can relate to.

    In short, go broncos and go good guys!

  • gringo-dancer

    Orton, sorry wont type on iphone again.

  • anthony33

    There is absolutely no doubt in my mind this defense will be better for all the reasons I posted earlier. If you think all the changes will make them worse, then just give up now. Quit posting, quit reading and quit following. Time will tell.
    Look at the enormous changes Atlanta, Baltimore and Miami made last year in terms of coaching staffs and players. One or two players stepping up are all it takes. The Bronco defense died the day Al Wilson left the field on a stretcher. One player, Dawkins, can add the type of leadership we have not had since Wilson. He will raise the level of play of those that surround him. Ayers, Williams, Dumerville, Woodyard and Bailey will all be better for it. I can’t wait for this season to begin.

  • rcsodak

    kerry, how about this:
    Denver’s Defense WILL be better than last year!
    Denver’s Defense WILL have more sacks!
    Denver’s Defense WILL have more int’s!
    Denver’s Defense WILL have a better 3rd down percent!
    Denver’s Defense WILL allow fewer yards!
    Denver’s Defense WILL allow fewer points!

    How can I justify this?

    BECAUSE of the new HC!
    BECAUSE of the new DC!
    BECAUSE of the new coaches!
    BECAUSE of the new players!
    BECAUSE of the new scheme.

    Don’t agree?
    Who cares?

    I bet my prognostication is just as good as yours….

    …no, Strike that!

    Mine is BETTER! :coffee:

  • stav

    I can’t believe that this defense will be the third in three years to give up 400+ pts, I just can’t. I have to think we’ve improved somewhat, even it that only means we now have safeties who can actually tackle. And in all honesty, its really not hard to improve on the defense of the last two years: heartless, undisciplined, under-sized, poor tackling skills. We know Dawkins won’t have any of that, and I think Champ will be way more vocal this year. We’ll see how the switch works, but I don’t care what anyone says, this defense will be improved this year

  • kerry

    jchase:

    if you actually could read you would see that i didnt comapare Webster to DJ. i was using the example in reference that DJ loves the idea of playing JACK LB yet that doesnt mean anything if someone loves the idea of playing a specific position. i said Webster loved to play MLB yet loving a certain position doesnt mean you can excel at it. learn to read what i actually say instead of twisting it like an idiot.

    rcsodak:

    no ill stick to my thoughts and opinions. thanks though. but hey if you say they will be better enough times then maybe they will. but who you trying to convince? me or yourself?

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