Broncos bruised, beaten in Baltimore 31-17

i'm always a cup half full guy and although I expected the Broncos to put up a fight a loss against one of the better AFC teams is not a disaster. I think I'd have taken 3-3 when the schedule came out making a bounce back win next week important. Especially as the first division game is coming up. Gotta be 6-0 in the division and win the rest of the home games.

As for today's game, there's not much good to take from it – Lloyd is unreal – so move on and get ready for the jets.

Even thou we have kyle orton we still lack the power house defense that denver fans have grown used to. I think running a wild cat offence with tim tebow might help spice up the passing and running game.Even with tebow on the feild use him as a tight end or a full back. come-on 6″5 265lbs, he could be a bigg weapon. All Im trying to say is kyle has the arm to get it “done” but what we lack is the weapons . It would also be a Great loss if we lose one of the best corner backs to ever play the game!!!

im a huge broncos fan, but i dont think you guys can suck anymore this season, no excuses.

why, so our defense could be worse?

Alphonso Smith is now showing WHY he was pick 37th!! dumb ass coaches in Colorado wouldnt give the kid a chance.. WOW.. you guys suck asss!! 3 games 3 int's 1fumble recovery, and a TD!! Quick question, “Do the corner in Denver have 3 picks total

hold up now… Cox looks extremely promising, and could be a stud by next season. Syd'Quan looked very good from the limited action he got in the pre-season and i look forward to seeing him play in the future. Demaryious Thomas has done very well in 3 games this season, and looks better than Brandon Marshall so far (lets pray for a quick recovery from his neck injury after that kickoff BTW). Knowshon is injured so i cant say much for him, but Ayers is looking very good this season. He may not be a sack king, but he has done excellant in run coverage, keeping MJD, Addai, and Chris Johnson in check. And Alphonso Smith was an embarasment to football in the pre-season. He was constantly blowing coverage and getting penalties. I can see why McD traded him, because he was absolutly awful. The Broncos have actually been playing well in my opinion, keeping up with the Colts and Titans, and the Ravens after the 1st Quarter. Besides, no one expected much this season. We're only 5 games into the season and nearly finished with the roughest portion of our schedule. What do other Broncotalk readers think?

Demoralizing game… even though Baltimore is one of, if not the best team in the AFC, you would have hoped to see progress from a year ago. It was like déjà vu, maybe worse… very disappointing.

What is becoming painfully clear is that while McD may be a great QB coach and a decent offensive coordinator, he obviously can’t coach every single position on the team. So he either has an inferior coaching staff or he is not cut out to be a head coach. With all the supposed focus they have put on running the ball and stopping the run it continues to get worse, not better. That is very concerning.

This team will not turn the corner until they can win two or three wins in a row and I don’t see that happening any time soon.

I agree. our D wore down late in the 3rd. O played respectably against the top defense in the league. I would like to see better running. Overall, this is a better team than any we have fielded since 2005. I think this team looks like one that should win more than it loses this year.

I agree, and I see the problem with our O line on running downs. there is no push, our RB's are running into a line that is falling back a yard. They spend more time dancing in the back field then moving up field.

Conflicted about McD. He is a bright young mind, but headstrong because he is so young. He will eventually be a top coach, I think, but I hope it happens quickly. He's lucky he didn't get Demaryius Thomas killed. DT ran straight into that backup linebacker. He's not experienced like Royal who can avoid the hits on kickoff returns. What about moving Demaryius to tight end (a Shannon Sharpe type tight end, OK blocker and great receiver)? They are the same size, but Thomas is faster. He could pump a little iron and gain 10 pounds. He would be an impossible match up for a linebacker. One step and he would be in the secondary, would be tough to bring down. Let's see how they fare against the Jets before writing the 2010 obituary.

Orton might me putting up numbers, but he doesn't post any treat as a running qb. If we want to help the running game, lets put someone in there that defense must plan for during the game. I am not a teabow fan, however big numbers do not matter if the game is lost. Teabow has proven that he is a treat as a running qb. He played with poise during the preseason, lets give the kid a chance, he is a a proven winner. If not then why draft him in the first place. We have nothing else to lose. Lets try that approach out.

The Organization sucks.. Every player the Denver Bronco's LET GO.. is having SUceess

B Marsh- One of the best in the league
Hillis- Should I say more with all the running back problems denver is having???
Cutler- Better than Orton Tebow and Quinn..
Smith-The plays this kid made all through camp, forcing the most turnover and getting “the best defensive player in camp award” from the broncos, are now showing it in dETROIT!!!

– TE – sheffler
– PORTIS
–

Organization sucks..

You mean Bradford correct? If not there's something seriously wrong with the Lions for intercepting their own QB.

where's ebeneezer ekuban? is karl paymah still clinging to a roster spot? what's dre bly doing? i can't even remember half the safeties that played under Shanny.

ain't it funny that when smith's a Bronco everyone wanted him cut cos he was proof they were better coaches than McD and now he's not a Bronco every performance he puts in is proof

Orton is the only reason we've been close in the games we lost. You're probably not even a Bronco fan. Go back to Florida.

regardless who he played against the thing is an interception and fumble recovery. Think inside the box

Very well said. With all the young talent that we have, I see no light at the end of the tunnel. I have no confidence in McD or Orton. We can keep them around for another year or move on. COnsidering the mediocrity we are seeing, it is time to move on.

Some guy earlier said Cox is promising? How?

Collie 171 on 12 catches in 2 td's

Your speaking privileges on this site should be revoked. First of its Tebow not TEAbow, second off Orton has been the reason we have any offense and who cares if he isn't a scrambler (even though at 2.9 yards a carry he's averaging more than our rbs at 2.3), neither is Peyton, Brady, or Rivers but I guess you would want them replaced for a “treat” running qb. Newsflash scrambling qbs aren't that successful in the NFL. Bottom line is he is moving the bal extremely well despite no run-game.

I've been saying the same thing about temporarily moving Thomas to TE (especially even lining him up in the backfield as an H-back to sift through the line and spring down the seam). No mike LB can keep up with him dee and he could even get a direct-snap or a lateral from Tebow (if Tim ever gets the chance to out-rush relatively-immobile QB's like, ahem, the stiff 6'5 Joe Flacco).

Unlike every other team in the NFL, we don't even try to throw the ball between the hash-marks more than 15-yards down-field.

Oh, yeah. That's because for some THOROUGHLY-INCOMPREHENSIBLE reason McDaniels has decided that both Tight ends must be blockers exclusively. WTF?

But the other comment I've been wanting to see aired is the idea of throwing to Lloyd deep on the first two series. McD acted like Orton couldn't throw long last season and for many weeks people like me believed his arm or accuracy wasn't up to it.

Now we know better and realize that its McD's philosophical/psychological problems that are limiting this.

Counting yesterday, we've gone deep to Lloyd five times this year. And all five times its been successful, with three gorgeous TD's and two P.I. calls.

Five-for-five, Coach McJive.

Unfortunately– and just like Shanahan with blitzing or pitching the ball to Hillis– we have a head-coach who convinces himself that this tactic only works because of his shrewdness in limiting the call to rare occasions. And, despite all his emphasis on THE PLAYERS adapting to situations, we may again have a stubborn head-coach who can't adjust to new circumstances himself.

I'm not saying these calls work every time. But with opposing secondaries pinching everything to the sidelines– which happens when Safeties don't have TE's to worry about down-the-seam– we must go deep to Lloyd to keep them honest and to open up the other patterns later on. Even, gosh, at the risk of a sack or incompletion.

Just like last season, McDaniels is taking too long to react to the facts (i.e. keeping Lloyd benched until week #15). I wasn't a big fan of Scheffler due to his lack of hip flexibility. But they never even sent him down the seam in the first-half and were basically wasting his presence. Just like we stubbornly wasted first downs in the first three quarters at Tenn. and we wasted all the long Lloyd TD bombs this season in losses.

Now, we don't have anyone to replace Scheffler at TE (and Gronkowski and Quinn aren't even good blockers). Graham is a good blocker, but must be thrown to more than once a game to keep defenses honest (and he must lack the speed to keep the LB's and Safeties from crowding the box).

Thomas should be played at TE if only to get in the way of tacklers on running-downs (plus it means we won't have to sub him for Gaffney, Royal or Lloyd). If they want extra blocking in short-yardage, keep Gronkowski and Quinn on the bench and substitute Beadles or another lineman as a tackle-eligible or H-back instead of Bay-Bay.

But even occassionally blocking can't be more hazardous than getting hit by two tacklers with 30-yards of momentum (like on yesterday's kickoff.. which could have been returned by Squid or Cassius instead).

The criticism is getting too bifurcated between McDaniels apologists and McDaniels glass-half-empty types (who are so eager to seize on any tidbit capable of pointing out his weaknesses). Its getting like the tiresome Denver Post comments here after every loss, what with everyone venting their understandable frustrations).

No wonder Josh is probably tuning out even sensible ideas from the fan-base.

I, too, see many problems with McDaniels. But also many strengths.

He has developed Orton well, had a good draft and overall player acquisition trend this off-season and has developed a WR corps that's bought into his system over a typical “I'm open and I'm a star” mentality.

He is trying to get more physical blockers on the line and he offers no excuses for injuries (even though we lost out most promising athlete on defense with Doom, and on offense with Clady's obviously-limiting knee injury).

Yes, I know Ryan CVlady is gutting it out. But McDaniels is trying to rebuild on the fly without tanking for the season. And its no easy task.

I just wish he would throw deep to Lloyd ON THE FIRST SERIES… when we have the most time (like how Baltimore did to TE Ed Dickson yesterday to keep the line-charging B-Dawk honest).

I want to avoid what happened last year after Baltimore thumped us and showed the league how to pinch everything in (by capitalizing on our incomprehensible avoidance of the TE's pass-catching abilities).

Aaron Hernandez, by the way, was available in round-four. And, I know its I.T.Y.S., but some of us desperately wanted him to remind defenses that the area 15-30 yards down-field between-the-hash-marks must also be defended.

I know people here ripped the promising CB Perrish Cox. But part of Collie's success was due to us expending two defenders to bracket TE Dallas Clark that day.

Peyton Hillis is also an inexplicably stubborn refusal to judge a player by what he can contribute (instead of what your system envisions in terms of measurables and 40-times).

McDaniels didn't want him to succeed from day-one and put Peyton in a dog-house after one fumble (even though Moreno never got the same treatment). In fact, against the Colts before halftime last year, Moreno was so sore and tired-out, that it was inexcusable how McD wasted three straight plays going to him (when he was breathing heavier than B-Marsh was at the end of the Jets game last week).

But he wanted Hillis gone before he could show what he was capable of under McDaniels. And that rankles many of us who appreciate what a versatile throwback that mini-tank really is.

He's have fit right in under the old Colts backfield from the mid-to-late 1960s and, if given the proper chance, could have spelled Moreno and Buck the past two seasons.

Oh, and regarding the contretemps about the spelling of Tebow's name and how dumb it is to recommend inserting him. Again, its not black-and-white.

He can come in on the goal-line and his running ability on gadget-plays can be helpful when we are at 2nd-and-goal from the 5 yard line. Orton would know its not like Kolb and Vick. He knows he's the starter and is mature enough to handle the “wild horses” substitution.

The only question is why Josh is afraid of deploying it. I'd hate to hear its due to fear of the inevitable fan and media squabbling.

After all, situational football dictates doing whatever it is that gives defenses a second of doubt and indecision (so they can't get a jump on things). That's why going deep to Lloyd early would help, why playing #88 at TE may contribute and why the best time to churn out some rush yards is when its 2nd-and-short.

To McD's credit, he passed more on first-down at Baltimore (than he did in the first three-and-a-half quarters at Tenn). He just limited his pass plays to short patterns that developed quickly.

I understand that Baltimore and Tennesee's swarming and physical defensive front motivated this. But the order is all wrong.

If you open it up deep early-on, then you have more room for the 17-yard sliding back-shoulder passes to Lloyd that the Ravens so ably prepared for and stopped with Fabian Washington's aggressive coverage.

Washington was coached to not worry about the double move, so our offense sputtered out of the gate until it was too late to throw short enough to get those 2nd and shorts (that we needed to inflate the rushing stats enough to keep defenses honest).

Now we will have to try going deep to Lloyd against the best CB corps in football when the Jets face us.

The Ravens should have faced an early onslaught of deep balls, even if none of them were completed (which I doubt, considering the 100% success rate thus far).

Just my 0.2 cents attempt at balance. Sorry if I've offended anyone..

If you want to rip Bowlen, attack him for distracting us with constant media circuses so no one can see how cheap he’s been in free-agency.

After getting his stadium, his wallet hasn’t opened up once for a big-talent free-agent in his prime. You know, a Julius Peppers or Karlois Dansby type.

Peppers does fit better in a 4-3, but would also have been a monster Demarcus Ware type (who is another rare exception to the “nobody that tall can cover and rush that well” rule).

And some of us were warning that resigning Dumervil– albeit at a relative discount to his gaudy collection of 17 mostly COVERAGE-SACKS– wouldn’t be enough to keep pressure on the QB.

I , myself, was warning here and in other places that Dumervil’s lack of stature would lead to injury vulnerabilities (as he lacks the strength to do anything but speed moves.. unlike Suggs, Allen, Ware and Peppers).

But why couldn’t we have more than one pass-rusher? There’s a multiplier effect on teams that do (and the examples are too numerous to even mention).

But Denver hasn’t had a top-flight pass-rusher since before I started watching the orange-and-blue in 1977.

Alzado, Fletcher, Rulon Jones, Mecklenburg and Neil Smith were all solid B+ types with good durability over the long-haul. But, other than 3-4 seasons where Shanahan’s bend-but-don’t-break defense squandered Trevor Pryce in his healthy prime, we haven’t had anyone who rivaled what Rich “Tombstone” Jackson was said to have provided four friggin’ decades ago!

That’s not all Bowlen’s fault, obviously. But not even interviewing Rex Ryan tells me that he still believes in building a team through the offense (as though Elway’s legendary abilities weren’t the real reason for his consistent success all those years).

Its bad enough that Shanahan coasted on those laurels for a whole extra-decade. Now we may have a less-expensive version of Shanahan at head-coach and the fans and media have enough to argue about to keep people from asking questions that Bowlen doesn’t want to hear.

Like, where do all those dollars go (now that the last big free-agent splash was Dale Carter in 1999-2000… unfortunately)?

What is our owner’s cash-flow problem exactly (and did he invest in sub-prime mortgage funds or keep his money with Madoff)?

I fell in love with this team because of the “Orange Crush” in general and Randy Gradishar in particular. So, it hurts when other teams rode the 3-4 scheme to greater success while Shanahan’s unrivaled ego dictated that he only needed to deploy his genius on offense to get us back to the big-game.

…and let's face it…some coaches are better than others in getting players to give 100 per cent.

ok coach, who would you have drafted?

Some thoughts

Hillis was one of Shanny's guys. He never had a chance with the new staff who has been too busy picking RBs in the first round instead of LBs and D-line men and picking up the NE rejects.

The long bombs to Lloyd? Heeelllloooooo McFly. All in the last two minutes of the half when the defense is playing prevent, i.e. no rush at all. The long bomb is effective against the rush. Even if the pass isn't complete, it puts the Defense on it's heels and makes them think twice about sending a rusher. Orton looks to check down when there's a rush.

McDaniels' system does not use TE in the passing game. Look at the TE stats in NE during the 16-0 season, pedestrian at best. He's not gonna put any of the WR at TE. In this offense they block. That's all they do.

As much as Orton is putting up crazy yards, the offense is not scoring. Remember this was the knock on the 2008 team? Same problem here. Multiple reasons why they are not scoring. Running game is tops on that list.

The O-line is just awful. I don't care if they are all young. I don't care that we've changed to a power rush style. THey suck. Period. End of story. They were the one of the best in the league. Now they are not. Thanks, McDaniels.

The team had major problems against the run last year. What did they do to address this problem? Draft a WR and QB in the first round. Signed an NT who is on his last legs. Great. Baltimore did absolutely nothing the first four weeks in the run game. Over 200 yards yesterday. Plan on more big run days against the Broncos.

Also, where the H### was Tebow yesterday? While Orton was padding his stats with the team down 3 TDs, Tewbow could have got some reps and at least some much needed game experience.