Broncos trail other teams in player retention

“One could certainly argue that Josh McDaniel’s ‘team oriented’ system leads to more turnovers than most teams; however, Belichick’s Patriots don’t show that trend (they rank 5th overall).”

Belichick hasn't completely rebuilt his team in the past two seasons. This is like comparing apples and oranges. Obviously the Broncos would be at or near the bottom of this list. How many players have been on the roster more than two years? Three or four?

So what, the Colts were in the super bowl, and they are only 1 spot ahead of the Broncos (26th). The Chiefs suck and they are #7, the Raiders suck and they are 12th. While the Chargers, who have a stranglehold on both those teams ranks a lowly 18th.
I put no stock in that, and it is just a desperate attempt to meet a deadline for an article by his boss.

Oh…as an add on for not comming back….. I forgoet that Kerry the troll…lives on this site.

Stupidly repeating “2nd ranked offense” and “our pro bowl players” completely disqualifies whatever followed.

This was a waste if time.

dude no player is gonna walk out and say “oh coach McD has alienated us and divided the locker room” DUH!! i mean im not gonna walk out and say my boss is a piece of shit right in the middle of the office where he is sitting. id be fired in a heartbeat, as would ANY player that said anything detrimental about MCD. you gonna tell me every single player just loves McD?? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Colts see something Broncos didn't: they claimed former Broncos QB Tom Brandstater on waivers. He will compete to backup Peyton Manning.

No shit..they don't have TIM F**KING TEBOW on their 3rd string….

“Mike Nolan… came into a real defensive mess last off-season and without any real ‘outside’ help (Dawkins being the most notable exception), he turned around one the sloppiest units in the league. ONE off-season – with very few personnel changes”

Wow, this is completely off base. May I remind you that in addition to Dawkins, other notable “outside help” for Nolan consisted of defensive starters Renaldo Hill, Andre Goodman, Andra Davis, Mario Haggan, Ronald Fields, Ryan McBean, Le Kevin Smith, basically every starter and contributor on the defensive side of the ball not named Champ Bailey, DJ Williams, or Elvis Dumervil.

I understand that McD haters have to grasp for straws in order to find real reasons to hate the refreshing direction he has set the team on(which is further evidenced by your mentioning of 08's '2nd ranked offense', while failing to mention that it was also 16th ranked in points, but then if you were fair about it and mentioned that, it wouldn't sound as good, right?), but please, don't rewrite history.

I agree on the defensive side… I do not agree on offense.

Removing Tebow for a sec, you have a starter at QB that was mediocre, you have a WR group that lacks a star receiver, you've ditched your best receiving TE and, most horrific, you've abandoned the Zone Blocking scheme that provided Denver with one of the best running games in the league. No, I don't buy that the offense is in a better place today than when Shanahan left. I have to say, the only thing I'm even remotely interested in (offensively) is Tim Tebow; however, I fail to see how McDaniels' 'no-all star' system is going to take advantage of a player like Tim Tebow (who is NOT a 'system' QB).

So check it, we will have players leaving and coming in while McD finds players to fit his system. His system is much different than Shannys was so obviously a lot of the players wont fit. I never understand why people come on Broncos news sites like this to argue? Are we not all Broncos fans? Yes, this site isn't that great. There are rarely ever any new posts. http://www.milehighreport.com is wayyyyy better incase you don't know about it.

There sure is a lot of bitching about free entertainment.

oh we all know about it. we just dont go there because most of us arent a bunch of blind following, kool-aid swilling McD lovers. any bunch of morons can just all agree on the same thing (Like at the MHR) and that doesnt make for any type of discussion at all. the arguments are where the REAL discussions and debates happen. we arent a bunch of kumbaya singing McD worshippers. thats why this site beats the MHR hands down every time. hell even the DP beats the MHR. and you can tell John Bena i said all this. we may not all agree here, but its brings about equal and unbiased opinions. over there you disagree and they boot you off forever.

Jon,

I like JD Walton at center. I like Harris back and healthy at right tackle. I love Clady and he is due back soon at left tackle. I like Kuper at right guard. I like Beadles or Seth Olsen at left guard. I like a stronger more fit Moreno with Buck to help out. At QB, I like Brady and Tim at back-up over Simms and TB. I like a healthy Kyle with our improved o-line. I like Thomas as our #1 WR, Gaffney as our #2 WR, and Royal in the slot. I like Hochstein and Eric Olsen as back linemen. I like Marquez Branson as much as I liked Tony minus the constant foot injury drama. I like Daniel Graham to block and catch at TE. I like Decker, Willis, and Lloyd as back-up WRs pushing for starting time. Dude, there is plenty of good news on our offense too. It is hard to let go of Cutler's big arm and BM's big catches, but our offense and our defense will be better next year with an easier schedule. We should make the playoffs, and if we don't we will have a top 15 1st and 2nd round draft pick and Miami's low 2nd round pick (because they have a very hard schedule and will not make the playoffs). This team is headed in the right direction and we get to enjoy every game! Life is great.

That out of the way… I'm almost embarrassed to say, but I'm giddy about Tebow.

I think it was dumb move to ditch a mobile, strong-armed QB only to have to pay through the nose for an untested new one two years later, but that's beside the point.

I just find Tebow's untamed ferocity and passion for the game wonderfully addictive. I know the kid is wild and uncouth, but damn if he doesn't inspire me to continue watching OTA video. I'm actually looking forward to preseason games just because of Timmy.

I feel a bit like a teenage girl watching Twilight… It's dumb and ridiculous, but that somehow doesn't change the fact that I'm excited to see it. lol

•Comparing a coach who has held his position for 10 years to a coach who took over a team just over a year ago is dumb
•Ignoring the fact that multiple successful teams are near the bottom is dumb (Colts, Cardinals, Eagles, Jets)
•Clinging to the old 2nd ranked offense (if only yards counted as points) is dumb
•Pretending Nolan 'fixed' the defense without turning over the starting roster is dumb (6 out of 11 starters on defense were new to the Broncos last year, compared to 2 on offense) is dumb
•If you think Andra Davis, Ben Hamilton, or Casey Weigman should be starting for the Broncos this year you are dumb

I don't think Jonathan is dumb, but this article sure makes him seem that way.

Wiseguy is right, this site has gone to crap. Maybe I'll be back for the caption contests, but not till then.

I'd take Orton over Cutler. I'd take Stevie Wonder over Cutler though.

However the rest of your points make no sense, much like this article.
RB: Anyone? ZBS? Because ever back did did so well in 2008. The ZBS only works when you have a great cohesive o-line set. Hence why it has been spotty for Denver over the past few years.
OL: I am so damn glad that Wiegmann and Hamilton are gone. That was a great decision my McDaniels.
WR: I'm glad that Marshall is gone, he is a me first player that may have a lot of receptions, but they don't mean much. I also love Decker, and Thomas has all the physical ability to dominate.
TE: I'm even more glad that Scheffler is gone. Branson will see much more playing time because he's actually healthy and not running his mouth. Scheffler may be talented, but he's never healthy, what use is that?
FB: Don't ever argue about a fullback. What's next, equipment managers?

It's obvious that you're still in this “Bring back Shanahan and Cutler” daze. I understand that you miss the “magic” of the old 1997 and 1998 teams, but they're long gone, and football isn't played like that anymore. The game changes every few years and Mike Shanahan refused to adapt, that is why he's gone. Shanahan may do very well in Washington because he is actually changing the way he does things. Funny how getting fired does that to you?

Also player retention is a misleading statistic, an interesting one, but very misleading.

So Chiefs and Bengals do a relatively good job at retention, while Indy does a relatively poor job???? CHART IS USELESS!

Dan, I don't dislike every player McD has brought in. I like lots of them; however, I felt like we've taken unnecessary steps backwards before going forward (on offense). It was (and is) my belief that our offense in 2008 was play-off caliber (even with the terrible luck we had at RB). It was our Defense that was in shambles. In a Madden game I'd LOVE to see what a Mike Nolan run defense and Mike Shanahan offense would have done in 2009.

That said, I don't want Shanahan BACK. Pat Bowlen gave Shanahan plenty of time to figure out how to improve the defense and, in the end, Mike just didn't get it done. Shanahan was fired for cause and I won't second guess that call on Pat's part.

For me the issue I have is with McD's inability to work with the all-stars he had on offense. Mike had no issues with Cutler and he never had BM misbehaving during practice. Yes, both of these players made equally bad choices for their parts, but I expect more 'management' skills from our Head Coach than from our youngest players.

McD could very well be steering us toward better days this off-season. But I'll need to see something really special out on the field before I'll except the fact that McD's overhauled offense could keep pace with Shanny's '08 group.

ETL,

I agree with you that retention is an 'interesting' but not necessarily 'meaningful' stat. It's something to watch in year two, but not something that should panic fans.

Now, we totally disagree on the offense's ('08 vs '10)…

First off, Zone Blocking is what made our team GREAT. I can't believe it's only been one full season and we're re-writing history already. Gibb's blocking scheme gave us more 1000 yard rusher than any other system in existence – you can't argue that. Mediocre running backs produced yardage in that system and good running backs put up HUGE yards. Saying it didn't work in 2008 is just silly. We went through 7 running backs that year due to injuries – don't you remember that?? It wasn't an issue of the scheme is was the fact that every week we had a new runner lining up behind Cutler.

Secondly, I would take our O-line in 2008 any day over most teams out there now. Yes, Hamilton struggled, but that line produced the lowest sacks in the league! They were very good – let's not forget that!

Third, Cutler and BM are in the past. period. But let's not let the Denver Fever for hating anyone that's no longer playing in Orange and Blue cloud the facts – that combo was freaking awesome! We've not seen that kind of dynamic pair since… wow… Not sure I can come up with one since Elway and Sharpe back in the day. They just were on FIRE. To this point, I'll mention that it was only with THIS combo running that players like Eddie Royal were able to get HUGE yardage. Drop the dynamic duo and Eddie's performance also gets killed.

Lastly, I'll just give you the point about Schefler. I don't think that's a HUGE loss one way or the other; however, we'll get in fist-a-cuffs over the Full Back topic. You don't mess with my FB's — I'm just a GIANT fan of those dudes from as far back as our SB teams and Howard Griffith. We don't have them now… I get it. However, I'll always WANT one. This is just a personal preference – not a judgment on strategy or coaching. :)

Thanks for your comments! Have a dialog about the Broncos is always fun… even when we don't agree! lol

“Gibb's blocking scheme gave us more 1000 yard rusher than any other system in existence – you can't argue that.”

You're right, I can't argue the fact that Gibbs' blocking scheme was amazing. However, Gibbs left awhile back and Rick Dennison was good but not even close to his predecessor's level. I think that the PBS will be fine with the guys Denver has (given Clady and Harris are healthy).

bring back the create-a-caption!

A very fair and thoughtful reply… damn, I love our Bronco community. You just would NEVER see stats and civil discussions like this on a Raider's forum!

Thanks for the food for thought… I'll look into some numbers myself and get back to you.

What ever you say dude… This site is great and arguments only make it better… kerry is totally correct… MHR is boring because there aren't opinions.

Truthfully as a broncos fan its almost impossible to not be confident in them. But now its kind of hard to find our personality. the last year with shanny i thought our personality was simply cutler, marshall, royal and some scheffler. but now i am really having a hard time thinking about our personality. Before nolan went to the phins i was very confident in our defense but now dont know what to expect at all.

the new broncos personality is Brain Dawkins,Champ Baily,Ronaldoe hill,Andre Goodman,Dj willams,Jamal Willams,Justin Bannan,Oh hell broncos new personality is its defence and a hell of a defence it will be.