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Published on 07/23/2009 at Thu Jul 23 11:00.
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Kyle Orton: The Bad

Posted Thu Jul 23rd by

Kyle Orton

Kyle Orton Week continues on BroncoTalk. We’ve already broken down The Good; now let’s take a look at The Bad, with the series’ conclusion, The Ugly, coming later this week.

On paper, Kyle Orton is a mediocre quarterback.

Boasting a career passer rating of 71.1 in 33 games played over a four-year span, and a touchdown-interception ratio of 30-27, Orton hasn’t been horrible, but he hasn’t been that good, either. All but 15 of those games were played in a backup capacity to boot, having never won a starting NFL QB job until 2008. Take a look at the stats (click to enlarge):

Orton stats

Of course, Orton had his best year as a pro last year, where he boasted a still-not-great, but better, 79.6 passer rating. Is it feasible he will continue to impress this year? Possibly, but some early reports from mini camp have been less than favorable. Here’s Woody Paige (Denver Post):

During practice with the first team, Orton threw a couple of interceptions and also threw a completion to the young man operating the music machine several yards out of bounds and threw a pass onto the distant field. And he was forced to eat the ball twice on red-zone plays. It was not Orton’s best day on the field.

OK Woody, fair enough. But let’s take a look at some highlights and try and see for ourselves. Let’s look with some purpose and focus, however, and not be blinded by the flashy end results (these are all highlight reels after all). I want you to look at Orton as a technical passer. Two videos after the jump.

Footwork – These videos left me very unimpressed with Orton’s footwork. To be fair, many of these highlights were taken after he injured his ankle in the middle of last season. Still, his steps are slow. It’s in stark contrast to the highlight video I showed last time, where I commented that his footwork was actually quite good. It’s fair to say he needs to find consistency in that area, in the least. Also, being aware of pressure and escaping the pocket remains a big concern for me. Our o-line is good, but we are facing some of the NFL’s best defenses this year. They will be tested.

The throw – Orton’s release, especially on distance throws, is slow. I also hardly seem him make his reads and progressions in these highlights, locking onto his primary receiver and waiting for one guy to make a play. There are pros and cons to this, but in Josh McDaniels‘ system, and this high-powered offense, Orton will need to recognize that he is surrounded by playmakers. We can’t afford to give up big plays because Orton can’t look off his first target. Finally, I am concerned about his deep throw arm strength, as you see him struggle to give the ball enough distance to hit Devin Hester in stride.

Obviously there are positives to be taken from this video. He throws accurate passes and puts some heat on some of those throws (particularly in the first video at 1:50, where he squeezes the football in between three defenders for the touchdown. On the other hand, it was a very risky Jay Cutler-esque, rely-on-your-arm throw).

Statistically, Orton isn’t going to carry the team, and as a technical passer he leaves a bit on the table. What bothers me possibly the most is that none of his attributes as a quarterback stand out. He doesn’t excel in any one area. He’s generally conservative and makes smart decisions, but no part of his game blows you away. So is he a stud? No. Can he be the “Game Manager” the Broncos are hoping he can be. Possibly. It depends on how quickly he can adapt to McD’s system, and how well he can use the tools around him.

  • http://broncotalk.net (dee)

    I dont want him to become Jay Cutler for this team …. I want him to become what Jake Plummer was to this team, it doesnt have to be pretty , it doesnt have to be efficient, but when the clock hits 00:00 , we win the game.

  • http://broncotalk.net Ben

    Dee i agree with you highly. But at the same time theres no reason he cant be both 4 the broncs i almost gaurantee that ortonm best nfl season will be this year with wrs and o line he has he doesnt need 2 bomb it every time cuz his recievers are great poossesion wrs and extremley good running after the catch

  • Andpark

    Dude please_
    1. Orton looks like a guy that is very hurt, can’t plant his foot because of his hurt ankle. Peyton can’t play with a sprained ankle either.

    2. What a joke of an Offense line, he has not time to do anything except try and run away as soon as he gets the ball.

    3. Awful lazy WR’s doing nothing for him.

    Kool Aide talk ensue but give me a break, he had no chance to succeed in CHI and neither will Cutler.

  • DC

    His arm scares me. I’m surprised he doesn’t have more INT’s. His timing and looking off safeties has to be related. I’m excited to watch this new era.

  • ChuckD

    Can’t wait for training camp so I can see Orton in action with his new weapons. I think the key is can he read the d-fense and check down when needed. With our talent at WR\HB\FB I wont mind the dink & dunk because we have players who can turn those into first downs.

    At 40 seconds on the first vid there is a play where it looks like the bears are gonna get a first down and #21 Bob Sanders comes in and just blows it up. I’m hoping thats what B. Dawkins can add to our D.

  • DHB

    I see a poor deep ball, but I also see poor receivers. He made a few high-speed seven to ten yard passes, accurately, which is nice to see. Breaking contain for a TD against the Lions doesn’t prove much, but he looks like he can move a little. I think the boot-leg (which I really like) is a thing of the past, but that may not just be Orton’s fault.

    I did see a lot of locking on, whick I don’t like, but is that the QB or the WRs? With the potential of seven receivers on any given play (WRs, Marshall (or whoever), Royal, Stokley, TE Scheffler or Grahm, RB (moreno?) and Hillis). Will KO be stuck on the one and done read?

    On the plus side, it looks like KO may be able to his a screen pass (which I also see as a very valuable tool) since 75& of those highlights were screens, whether they were drawn that way or not.

    I would argue that out final record (which may be ugly) will have much more to do with our DEF and ST than Mr. Orton

  • Broncoholic

    As far as locking on to his primary target, in Chi behind a porous O Line (to say the least), all he could do was 3 step drop and get rid of the ball. He did not have time to go through his progressions in Chi. If he moved to his 2nd or 3rd option he got sacked or hit when he threw.

    It is very hard to extrapolate what kind of QB he will be in Den by watching him play is Chi. He will be in a completely new system (one much more like he had and excelled at in college), our O-Line will give him the time to go through his progressions, he will have many more quality targets to throw to, and he will have better coaching than he received in Chi.

    The days of our QB locking on to his primary target ended when Cutler forced his way off our team. Orton locked onto his primary receiver because that’s as far as his progressions could go before his time ran out. Cutler locked onto his primary target when he had no pressure at all and had a wide open man in the flats. I will miss Cutler’s arm but I won’t miss his decision making. I think Orton is a step above JC in that area. Now that he has a great offense, look out NFL. Orton will be serving crow all season long IMO.

  • http://myspace.com/paraleipsis jchase8410

    I agree that it will be very difficult to figure out how KO will play in Denver just by watching him play in Chicago. However, as Kyle has done here, you can definately lock in on tendencies and bad habits by watching his tape. We have all seen KO make some stellar throws, and then make a poor throw soon afterwards. The thing we can have hope for is that McD can correct some me those bad habits, and inconsistencies in his game. I’m happy that “the bad” isn’t THAT bad.

  • http://ttmt.com T-Money

    Locking on to his target??? Hello. HE ONLY HAD TWO!

    As much as a dumb ass as McD is you have to remember that he is a QB coach. Footwork is something that can be taught. Should fakes can be taught. Check downs can be taught. Intelligence and instinct is a talent that can’t be taught.

    Look for KO to struggle in the first 3-4 games then progressively get better.

  • ThankYouDenver!

    I want to say thank you Denver! Thank you for being the spoiled fans that you are, and giving us a true QB. Good Luck with Orton, bad line and WR’s has nothing to do with his skills at QB, besides didn’t you just sign Brandon Lloyd? There is a reason a Rookie RB and 2nd Year TE led us in receptions. It’s because he can’t throw it more than 20 yards unless the receivers open by 10 yards. The only reason he had any support in Chicago was because he wasn’t Rex Grossman.

  • DHB

    TYD-

    You should be thanking Cutler directly. Given the opportunity to make this whole thing go away, and have Jay back with no temper-tantrums, we’d do it. That said, you now have the boy who took his ball and went home. I hope for your sake he grows up, and can call your owner back.

    Right now we’re just trying to get a grip of the situation. I’d bet four years out, we have about the same win-loss record and same number of SB rings (0).

  • Broncoholic

    No, thank you Bears for over-paying for a hyped-up QB who does have the skills, but not the mental makeup of an elite QB. A QB who has never won at any significant level (college or pros).

    Your tone would be appropriate if we traded Cutler for Orton straight up. Did you forget the part where you gave us 2 1st round picks as well as a 3rd? Have fun with the big throws and even bigger mistakes Cutler makes, especially when he’s running for his life on the field and pouting like a baby on the sidelines b/c his receivers can’t catch his bullet throws into triple coverage when he didn’t look the defenders off at any point of the play.

    Damn, I thought I had sworn off responding to trolls. Maybe this is my last time.

  • Andpark

    T-Money_
    I think maybe 1 target Olsen.

    Broncoholic_
    Absolutely couldn’t have said it better.

    TYD_
    FU, don’t come on here and think your team is any better. You sold your teams future for a guy who pouts, cries, lies and makes terrible decisions (check his red zone offense stats). He WAS great with offensive minded Shan, our O Line, TEs and RBs. In 5 years you think Denver is going to be in a better position with all those picks you gave us? Have fun losing to Favre and the Viks this year.

  • broncobobmeridian

    Broncoholic-

    Thanks for putting “ThankyouDenver” in his place. You forgot to mention that Bus Cook is going to demand that Baby Jay be the highest paid QB in the league. That will leave his team strapped for years to come with no cap space.

  • http://www.startkyleorton.blogspot.com SKO

    A couple things about Kyle

    1. He has an NFL arm. He’s going to struggle with deep throws, but he’s not, as “thankyoubroncos” says, unable to hit anybody past 20 yards. He doesn’t throw a great over the shoulder deep ball and the vertical game isn’t his greatest strength, but if he has the time to plant his foot and read, he’ll find guys in the short-intermediate passing game. Matt Cassel doesn’t exactly have a great arm either but he’s a solid fit for McDaniel’s offense.

    2. The Bears offensive line wasn’t as bad as you’re making it out to be. They were pretty patchwork, but only 10 of the team’s 29 sacks came before Orton’s ankle injury. The ankle injury damn near destroyed his mobility, which was never that great to begin with. Not to mention the fact they did upgrade their line with Orlando Pace and Kevin Shaffer this offseason, so Cutler will actually have time to throw. But I’m not here to talk about Cutler, I’m sure those of you that still love him are upset he’s gone and apparently several of you have some hard feelings toward him. Kyle can hold the ball too long on occasion and with the reduced mobility after the ankle injury, it really hurt him. If his ankle’s healed and the Broncos line holds up, he can be coached into getting the ball out quicker. One of the negatives on him even coming out of college was that he had a bit of a wind up in his throwing mechanics.

    3. The Bears didn’t have any great wide receivers but during the first half, when Kyle was hot before his injury, but Brandon Lloyd had a couple good games games, and Kyle did a good job of spreading the ball around. I believe 7 Bears had at least 300 yards receiving, so when he can set up his ankle and have some time to throw he does do a good job of going through his progressions

    4.I don’t think Cutler really locks onto his primary target as much as Broncoholic says he did. Marshall had over a 100 catches, Royal had 91, Stokley had 49, Sheffler had 40, and Graham had 32. That tells me he does go through his progressions. But again, I’m not here to talk about Cutler.

    All in all both this and the Good have been two fine jobs of breaking down KO. I don’t really see why there has to be any kind of emnity between Bears and Broncos fans. The situation went sour, Cutler had to be traded, the Bears gave the best package anyone was going to give. Whether the front office or Cutler is to blame doesn’t matter much anymore, as neither team’s gonna win any games on the field by saying “It’s Jay’s Fault” or “It’s Josh’s fault.”

    Take care and good luck, Broncos fans.

  • http://broncotalk.net Kyle

    Thanks SKO. FYI to the other readers, he runs a site called “Start Kyle Orton” (http://startkyleorton.blogspot.com) that’s actually pretty 1337. It’s a Bears blog, good stuff. Go check it out!

  • kerry

    wow. Kyle Orton is bad and everybody blames the O-line and receivers for it. him having a bad O-line has NOTHING to do with his inability to make plays. yeah he makes a couple 10 yard throws. so what? my grandmother can make those throws. all this shows is that Orton CANT make plays to win a game. he will only manage and play not to lose. Dwight Freeney came at him and he has no sense of the pass rush and certainly no ability to extend the play by rolling out.

    someone said “oh his bad isnt that bad” well if he was playing for the Lions you would be saying he sucks real bad. but because he simply wears a Broncos uniform now he “isnt that bad” PFFFTT. stop drinking the Kool-aid. and im sick and tired of this “oh he has better weapons now” bullshit. better weapons around a QB doesnt mean anything if the QB sucks. ask Brian Greise the year after Elway retired. all that talent and the team went 6-10. ask Tarvaris Jackson. the best D-line and O-line and RB in football and the team cant take the next step because of shitty QB play. a mediocre QB wont take us to the SB but he sure as hell will keep us from getting there.

    and guess what lemmings. our O-line was good last year but we also had a very mobile with a super quick release and that led to the very small amount of sacks given up. now we have a statue at QB with a slow release. yep more sacks are coming.

  • Broncoholic

    Oh you’re right Kerry, a horrible O Line and horrible WR’s have absolutely no effect on the stats or effectiveness of a QB. Coaching and scheme don’t have any effect whatsoever either.

    How stupid of us to think that football is a team sport. To even suggest that Orton’s numbers and play will improve because he now has one of the best O Lines in the league to go with very dangoerous receivers and superior coaching, what in the hell were we thinking???? I’m glad you set us all straight! Thank god for the wisdom of Kerry, otherwise we wouldn’t know anything about our Broncos!

  • broncobobmeridian

    Question for Kerry-
    What are your thoughts on Simms? If Orton plays as bad as you think he will, how long before Simm’s replaces him? and do you think Simms is a better QB?

  • MikeY55

    plus tampa bay won it with an excellent Defense and a very mediocre offense with Brad Johnson as qb same with baltimore and Dilfer. Ben Roethlisberger threw 2 more touchdwons then INTs last year. Bears made it TO the superbowl with grossman granted they didn’t win but orton beat him out 2 years later. Carolina and jake delhomme made it there. Dispite what you think of Orton if the rest of ur team is good u can hide one bad player. unfortunatly our team isn’t good enough to hide that one player. just saying ur point is invalid. plus tarvaris played great at the end of last regular season throwing like 8 tds to no INT’s. Does anyone really beleive Kerry Collins did that good for the titans?? all he did was manage the game and they lost the game against baltimore mainly because the one part of there O that was working ( johnson) was hurt there are many example at this is just off the top of my head

  • kerry

    Broncholic:

    like i said a shitty QB will hold a team back. just like Brian Greise and Tarvaris Jackson and Tony Romo and so on and so on. yet QB’s with actual talent can make a team better. like……..John Elway, Dan Marino. those type of guys. put a great team around a shitty QB and the team still goes nowhere.

    Broncobob:

    Chris Simms. ahahahaha. the guy hasnt played in 2 years now, and will be stiing the bench for most of the year. i think he will get some time because Orton more then likely will be benched due to pooor play. and to be honest i think we will see Tom Brandstater this year as well. i believe we will be out of playoff contention by about week 8 to week 10 (unless the Chargers suck worse then we do) then McDaniels will throw Brandstater in there to get him some reps in preparation for next year. our QB situation is bad. not one QB on this team gives true inspiration to rational and clear thinking fans. sure the kool-aid lovers now think he is Peyton Manning simply because he wears a Broncos uniform. the only way we have any chance at a postseason birth is if the Chargers suck really bad. the wildcard teams will come out of the AFC North and AFC South.

  • broncobobmeridian

    Kerry-
    Last year with Cutler, our offense was great at times and terrible at times. I do think we would be better with Jay, but I think our offense this year will be better this year than last. Its up to the defense to keep us in games, I quess will have to wait and see. As for Orton, I dont think theres alot of fans on this site that think Kyle is the next Peyton Manning, but I think most of the fans think he will be able to lead our offense .

  • DHB

    Dan Mario was great, but he does not have a ring. Trent Dilfer was barely passable, he has a ring. John Elway took bums to the SB, but needed a change of coach/philosophy/team to actually win one.

    We need a healthy team/culture more than we need a top five QB. Our team can win with a top 18 QB.

    We also need camp to start. OK I need camp to start. This has been a long “off” season.

  • craig

    Can this team win with Orton? Yes, if they had a defense like Baltimore(Dilfer), Tampa(Johnson), or the Bears(Grossman), but they were one of the worst last year and haven’t added enough impact players to change that this year. That’s the real reason Orton won’t have much of a chance here in Denver. Could be a long year, defense is probably only better than Detroit, KC, and St. Louis. And QB situation is only better than San Fran, St Louis, and Oakland. There might be a few teams you could argue about but I don’t see how this team can make the playoffs.

  • broncobobmeridian

    I think offense will rank in the top 10, and the defense in the top 20, no higher than 15.

  • JChase8410

    Kerry

    I said tht KO’s bad is not that bad, And I will stand by that statement. Watching the videos again, and focusing on mechanics of the throw, (yes, I played QB) I noticed that he made a lot of flat-footed throws. He doesn’t really step into his throws, or rotate his hips into the throw very well. However, he completed some decent passes despite not having solid mechanics.

    These problems, fortunately, can be corrected with decent coaching. Like a golfer cam overhaul his swing and come out of it more productive, a QB can overhaul his delivery with the same results. Kyle Orton’s “bad” so far have been things that are correctable, thus resulting in my labeling of “not that bad”.

    Now, I’m not quite sure where not that bad is equal to the greatness of Peyton Manning, other than in your mind of course. If I am a lemming for viewing something objectively, and assessing the situation how I see it…then I am absolutely fine with that scenario. You are so narrow-minded that you refuse to accept that there may be another point of view other than your own. Everyone can see right through your shit pile of an attitude. Apparently, anyone who doesn’t agree with you is an uneducated moron who knows nothing about football, but when anything is directed at you, you hold a double standard. I’m far too tired of your bullshit to lookup specific instances right now, and when I know I’m right, I just don’t care to oblige others who refuse to reciprocate respect.

  • JChase8410

    “wow. Kyle Orton is bad and everybody blames the O-line and receivers for it. him having a bad O-line has NOTHING to do with his inability to make plays.”

    Are you freaking serious with this?!? This statement makes m believe one if two things.

    1) You have never played the game of football in your life
    2) You played in junior high, but have no real understanding of the game

    This is the greatest in a long line of quotes that discredit your knowledge of the game. To say that a piss-poor offensive line that barely gives a QB time to get a 3 step drop has NOTHING to do with his play is asinine. He may not be the greatest QB out there, but your argument just doesn’t hold water. All I can do is shake my head and Laugh. WOW. THAT JUST HAPPENED!!

  • robtink242

    I totally agree with Kerry in that we have a horrible QB situation. But i still think we have wild card hope if our Denfese and run game is great. Preseason is rite around the corner. We’ll finally see what Tom Bradstarter is bout. IDK call me crazy but i like my QB’s tall, mobile and big arm. Tom Bradstarter might not have a cannon but i know his arm strenght better than Orton and Simms.

  • kerry

    jchase:

    actually ive played both high school and College football. so i have quite an understanding of the game of football. and my point is to illustrate that a good QB can make plays even if he has a bad O-line. a shitty QB (Orton) cant do anything no matter the talent around him. Elway had bad O-lines all through the 80’s yet for some magical reason, he was still going to SB’s, yet he STILL made plays and won games. last year Roethlisberger had THE WORST O-line in football, yet he made plays and won games and ultimately the SB. so yeah my argument holds plenty of water due to the fact good QB’s can make plays behind a bad O-line. shitty QB’s cant. as Orton clearly has shown. Orton has no mobility and a slow release and THAT led to his poor play. its nice how you wanna blame everybody else for his inability to be an effective QB, yet before he got here you didnt once say we should get Orton.

  • kerry

    Robtink:

    our defense isnt great. hell our defense isnt even mediocre. and our running game is not gonna be great like most think. yeah Moreno may become a great runner eventually. but this year all teams have to do is stack the box knowing Orton cant beat them and they can shut Moreno down in the run.

  • broncoNM

    How bout Orton’s haircut at the top of the page… Orton must go to the same barber that Cutler went to… Its the same lame ,dorky haircut. Bring back the neck beard Kyle! Plummer wasnt the best but he would rock the beard/grizzly adams look like nobody’s business.
    Orton will be fine… he has enough tools to manage a game and his supporting cast will just make it easier on him (this includes coach McD and Coach McCoy). I just keep praying to the football gods that our defense will make a vast improvement. I agree with post #2 that KO will have his best season of his career in ’09.

  • http://cdn0.sbnation.com/profile_images/111140/La_La_Mascot.jpg WhidbeyBronco

    Gawd.
    Kerry. Where’d you play college ball?

  • DC

    Watch the NFL network clip from last night about players who are most likely to break out next season………Kyle ORTON is on the list. I think he is gonna be just fine. Kerry, I can’t wait to say I told you so.

  • broncobobmeridian

    Kerry- Wally Thorpe School of Trucking isnt a college.

  • John Elway

    Kerry, JChase,

    I too played some QB in my day, you might have heard of me. I think you both are full shit. JChase coaches pop-warner and says he played college ball and thinks his Vince Lombardi. Well Snoop Dogg coaches pop-warner too, and I don’t care what he has to say either. And you probably played DIII football where everyone makes the team. Kerry, says he watches game film during his spare time and he too played some college ball. We don’t care how about your experience in intramurals brother. Besides did you see me on Rick Reilly’s Homecoming? At 49 I still have a better arm than Orton. And with the Crush out for the season, I might just show up to camp.

  • robtink242

    lol@ John Elway.

    Yeah I’ve heard a lot Bull from these guys. I’m a bout to start my collegiate career and from simple high school football i can tell these guys on this site runs on with a lot of crap. Matter of fact they always seem to contradict themsevles.
    But one fact i do know is the 08 broncos arent the 09 broncos. Who can’t tell Orton is crap we better be optimistic about Brandstarter.

  • kerry

    whidbey:

    i played 2 years at Golden High school then i played 2 years at Northern Colorado before dropping out to take care of my kids.

  • Rob Bronco

    kerry – I hear your kids calling. Please drop out of this conversation to go take care of them.

    KO is what we have to work with. He will be better than he was in CHI, but he was only mediocre there. The Broncos are going to rely on a lot of short passes and crossing schemes, just like the Patriots did. They’ll use their stable of running backs to keep the opposing defenses offkey. You aren’t going to see a lot of down the field passing. Look for passes of 10-15 yards and the receivers will be expected to do the rest. Marshall will play the role of Moss and Royal will play the role of Welker.

    The Broncos Defense is going to continue to struggle, particularly against the run. However, Dawkins’ experience will help immensely, particularly with the rookie DBs.

    I said it last year and I’ll say it again – if the Broncos do not do a better job of pressuring the QB, it’s going to be a looooooooooong year.

  • DHB

    Kerry-

    What positions(s) did you play?

  • robtink242

    Aww I can respect a man that takes care of his kids.

  • kerry

    DHB:

    i played OLB in high school then switched to safety in college.

    Rob Bronco:

    dont talk about my kids ok. leave my kids out of your fucking posts.

  • Rob Bronco

    LOL … Did I get you all bent out of shape Kerry? I didn’t talk about your kids – YOU talked about your kids. I just brought it up again. Don’t get all sensitive on us now.

  • neckbeard army

    when it comes to footwork you have to remember kyle had a few o-linemen( on the Bears ) who often missed or could not block and that makes a long day for a QB. Im not saying kyle is an outstanding QB but with a great o-line where every player knows how to block/ defend ? All of you are in for a pleasant suprise this year.