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Published on 02/16/2009 at Mon Feb 16 18:45.
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Turk Takes Six

Posted Mon Feb 16th by

Dewayne Robertson takes down Philip Rivers. Dec. 28, 2008.(AP Photo/Denis Poroy)

Dewayne Robertson takes down Philip Rivers. Dec. 28, 2008.(AP Photo/Denis Poroy)

The Denver Broncos announced the departure of six more players this evening: defensive end John Engelberger, tight end Nate Jackson, linebacker Niko Koutouvides, safety Marquand Manuel, defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson and linebacker Jamie Winborn.

Several of these cuts were expected, though it may be earlier than we thought for others. Amongst the most surprising may be Winborn who was a decent backup and played well on special teams. Analysts have not hesitated this off-season to point out that head coach Josh McDaniels and general manager Brian Xanders have absolutely no loyalty to any players on the current roster. This couldn’t be more true for Jackson, who although he has underachieved his entire career, was held onto by Mike Shanahan presumably due to his dedication in the off-season.

Robertson alone was scheduled to count $16-million against the salary cap, Koutouvides ($3.062 million), Engelberger ($2.185 million), Manuel ($1.333 million), Winborn ($2.25 million) and Jackson ($557,000). Overall the Broncos saved nearly $25 million dollars with the cuts, coupled with the cuts from earlier last week, they have freed close to $30 million.

The worst news, as I mentioned Xanders earlier, is that at his first press conference this afternoon he referred to this season as a, “Transition.” Though not all bad news, he did state that the Broncos may add more draft picks (they currently have eight) and should be busy in free agency, which is scheduled to start soon.

More analysis to come, stay tuned…

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  • http://broncotalk.net Kyle

    VERY SURPRISED – Robertson (we have no depth at DT)
    SURPRISED – Winborn (thought he was okay)
    MILDLY SURPRISED – Engelberger, Koutouvides (for the special teams)
    Jackson and Manuel come as no surprise.

  • AKscott

    Im a bit sad to see winborn go.. i thought he was a bright spot when DJ, Boss, and Webster went down. Seemed to be a good depth guy to have. Not sad to see Engelberger gone at all, likable guy and all, but ugh, hated when he played and especially started.

  • AKscott

    Not so surprised by D-Rob going.. he didnt take well to the 3-4 with the Jets and was due a 3mil roster bonus.. wish we had that draft pick back

  • http://broncotalk.net Ian Henson

    We’ve let go of Josh Shaw and now Dewayne Robertson… Not sure what we’re thinking, but I guess with the switch to 3-4 we’re going to need less DTs and a strong NT. Can Marcus Thomas and Tim Crowder play defensive end or is the thinking that they can fit in at Nose? With Koutouvides out, that leaves Denver with Nate Webster and DJ Williams (?) and possibly Spencer Larsen to operate in the middle. Our off-season pursuits are starting to become a bit clearer.

  • Andy

    “Analysts have not hesitated this off-season to point out that head coach Josh McDaniels and general manager Brian Xanders have absolutely no loyalty to any players on the current roster.”

    This could not be any more true

  • AKscott

    “Analysts have not hesitated this off-season to point out that head coach Josh McDaniels and general manager Brian Xanders have absolutely no loyalty to any players on the current roster.”

    The defense was just utter trash, so do what you do with trash… throw it out

    I was most surprised to read that winborn was due two and a quarter.. wow thats alot for a ST type guy

  • AKscott

    anyone have a ballpark idea of how far below the cap we are?

  • merc22

    i think around between 35-40 mil. This offseason will be interesting.

  • Soxbigdog

    Not too surprised by any, Robertson was an under achiever, the rest were ‘nice’ players, but all replaceable..
    I am sure they have a really good idea of the systems they are going to run, and what players will, and won’t fit into them..
    I would suspect that they are going to try to maximize the draft this year, by acquiring extra picks at some point

  • AKscott

    thanks merc.. im pretty sure i read we were about 30 mil before the cuts (who knows how true that was though) anyone know, was that anticipating some cuts, or are we closer to 50 mil with the cuts made today?

  • http://broncotalk.net Ian Henson

    AKscott, there are so many different opinions of how much, I’ve heard as much as 60 and as little as 9 (prior to these cuts). I’m going to put together what I can and come up with an official BT number.

  • http://broncotalk.net Joe

    So for an honest opinion, I would like to see Peppers signed by Denver this offseason. Peppers obviously likes Denver area in general, for I have read a ton of articles of how he is spotted at Nuggets’ games all the time. He to wants to go to a 3-4 system. I think he would be a great OLB, cause he is big and fast. To me, if Denver started Woodyard, Dj, Maluega, and Peppers at LB, we would do good in the 3-4 sytem. For DE’s we could have Doom and Moss, or Crowder and for NT we could trade/sign the best out there, which I hear is the guy from Arizona. This is all in my opinion though, does anyone agree with me?

  • SanDiegoBroncoFan55

    Go big with the money and get nnamdi asomuagha or dunta robinson at CB!!! or trade up and get two first round picks and get bj raji and rey malauga!!!! players like rey dont come by very often…that dude flies!!!! k that jus wont happen, i’ll admit that but i like both those dudes…why cant we get them both!! Hopefully Raji fails the wonderlic and he falls to the 2nd round! haha Peppers would be nice but I can just see him being injry prone with us…that shit always happens with big free agent guys… either way i like what they are doing so far, no complaints yet…

  • http://broncotalk.net Ian Henson

    Joe-

    Dumervil may be too small for DE in a 3-4, he’s expected to kick out to OLB. Moss is in the same boat, too small to play DE in a 3-4, he gained weight his rookie season and lost weight prior to this season. He preferred being lighter, here’s where the confusion starts for me; Webster will most likely walk during free agency, this leaves us with Boss Bailey and DJ Williams. Both can play outside, though likely Williams will move back to the middle, who else is left? Woodyard and Larsen… both fit better at middle than outside, Woodyard may even play safety, depending on Mike Nolan’s opinion.

    We are in the midst of very stormy weather and I don’t see it letting up for awhile. Joe, I do see Peppers signing in Denver, he’s even commented himself on the possibility. How sweet would Peppers and Haynesworth be? Pick up a linebacker in the draft and safety, we’ll be well on our way to repairing this broken wing known as the Denver defense.

  • http://broncotalk.net Joe

    SanDiegoBroncoFan,
    I like your thinking, that would be badass to get both of them. But what would we trade to get another first round pick? lol

  • http://broncotalk.net Joe

    Ian-

    Good point with Doom and Moss. But how do you see Boss’s future in Denver? We have already given Robertson the boot because theres always a chance with his knee being injured. Boss is always hurt. Can you think of any reason to why we would keep him? and seeing Woodyard at safety would be pretty cool. I picture him makin some hard hits on some wide recievers. And what do you think about the NT?

  • SanDiegoBroncoFan55

    Yeah thats the thing, we need all our draft picks, cuz those are huge..especially when we draft well like we did last year (Thank you Goodmans, haha) (what a draft last year was, dang!) ….i was gonna say trade Bly and a couple high rounders but i dont even know if Bly is worth a 6th or 7th round pick anymore! ha…and as for Woodyard playing safety…that would be dirty as hell, even though i wish he could play outside, that dude is athletic and much needed in that run defense…but im sure he could easily excel in any defense position…

  • http://broncotalk.net Joe

    and with all of this cap room we are getting from these cuts, would it be possible to get Peppers and Haynesworth?….not to mention Marshall’s contract is up after 2009, so he will get some big bucks..

  • http://broncotalk.net Joe

    Ha SDBroncoFan, Bly is not worth anytihng. Have you ever seen the movie Semi-Pro?? He reminds me of Monix in the movie. In other words, I bet if a team would offer Denver a washing machine for him, we would take the deal. Bly just needs to be cut.

  • SanDiegoBroncoFan55

    hahaha thats why we should go after asomugha or dunta robinson…both are legitimately considered the top CBs in the league now..i mean come on, bailey and asomugha both all pros lining up together…thats just not fair…bailey would get more balls thrown his way and if we are able to pressure the QB, its just a recipe for INTs… regardless, i think if we had doom or jarvis rushin off the outside in the 3-4 they have higher chances of getting to the quarterback and confusing the o-line…wait what month is it? february? wtf.

  • http://merlinofchaos.livejournal.com E. Halsey Miles

    One common thread here: If you ever played for San Francisco, you’re gone.

    Nolan and Winborn have a bit of a history. It wouldn’t surprise me if Engleberger is in a similar boat.

  • Roy

    I am glad to see so this purge. With the amount of great talent that has always passed in the offseason, to see shanny always keep “his guys” was frustrating. That said, with all the room being cleared, it would not surprise me in the least to see a play for one of the big name free agents. As mentioned before, there is Peppers (is there any coincidence to his mention of wanting a 3-4 and our transition, coupled with the Nuggets sightings?) and Haynseworth, Asomugha (if available would be a HUGE coup), Bodden, or maybe Foxy again? Don’t forget about Jermaine Phillips, Dansby, Vilma, or the wealth of other talent available out there.

  • http://broncotalk.net Joe

    Hell ya Roy, I forgot about Vilma. Lets get him along with Peppers and Haynesworth and draft Maluega….would be awesome…never happen though… lol

  • CJ

    I agree SanDiegoBroncoFan55 Asomugha and Bailey would be deadly and Jarvis Moss in the 3-4 but in Xanders meeting i was nervous when they didnt answer the 4-3 or 3-4 question. Everybodys assuming Denvers going 3-4 it makes sense. Denver needs to go 3-4 to help this defense and to bring a change to denver but what if the go 4-3 that would be terrible it would be Shannahans Defense all over again!

  • http://broncotalk.net Joe

    Ya i would say either sign Peppers and Asomugha or Peppers and Hayneworth. Either way, I say we draft Maluega. Webster has to go. He is awful. He cant read the offense for shit. He looks lost a lot of the time out there.

  • Roy

    We can all dream though…

  • Roy

    The one thing I am excited to see is fundamental techniques on the defense. Defenders hitting and WRAPPING UP a player before attempting to drive. If Nolan can teach Maualuga to do that he could be great. Otherwise I am really starting to warm up to the idea of Moreno.

  • Dakota fan

    Wow- McD is cleaning house on defense? That’s an understatement. But I think it’s wishful thinking to believe that both Peppers and Haynesworth will both be coming to town. I’ll be surprised if Peppers doesn’t come to the Broncos, but I’m ready for just about anything in free agency.

    Let’s just say that the start of free agency all the way through the draft will be full of Broncos news for us to chew on- pretty sure there won’t be any Nikos or Kearys (Colbert) signed this year. Last offseason, Shanny’s FA signings really made me scratch my head.

    I’ve been a supporter of Shanahan the whole way, but it’s time to move on. Shanahan to the Cowboys and McD building this team to be a winner. I’m sure he’ll get roasted time and again in this blog but the guy’s definitely making his mark on this team. CAN’T WAIT- GAME ON!!!!!

  • http://broncotalk.net Ian Henson

    I like the way these discussions are going. There was no doubt if Shanahan were to stay in Denver Asmoguha would be a Bronco, but that’s not the case anymore… Both Shanahan and Cutler were jockying hard for the man.

  • http://broncotalk.net Joe

    Do you guys think that if Woodyard does make the transition to safety that both him and Barrett could handle it? Or do you guys think that we need to go sign a vet to come help us out? if there are any good ones out there

  • Roy

    I like the idea of letting our young guys take reps at safety, but I would not be surprised to see us make a play for Jermaine Phillips, or James Sanders. Sanders is a free agent safety from the Pats, who at 25 has lots of years ahead of him.

  • broncoNM

    Man this is going to be a busy off season. This 2nd wave of cuts didnt have any shockers imo. niko, roberterson, and manuel didnt workout and were not worth their salaries. I thought winborn was a decent back up but im not going to argue with the decision. Jackson and engelberger were lucky to be on the team last year. Im excited to see how much cap room these wash ups and back ups freed up. We will certainly make a pretty big splash in the FAM. I am excited to see the completion of the overhaul on defense and see what kind of talent we are able to bring in. I think with the right balance of FA ‘s and rookies this defense might make a decent turn around. i cant wait for Apr 25th.

  • MikeY55

    Ian

    Dj and Boss have both started at MLB in a 4-3 and OLB… i think if boss and Dj can stay healthy they are our inside linebackers in this 3-4 defense… of course the big question for Boss is if he can stay healthy but the guys is an athletic freak and is pretty big to at 6-3 239…and if hes half as football smart ashis brother he should be able to pick up the defense pretty quick!! i too 100% disagree for doom playing as a 3-4 d end… last year when he we had absolutly no other threat as a pass rusher he was mauled by double teams… as a 3-4 it would bring out his weaknesses (size mainly) and darken his strengths (speed rush) and the same is to be said about moss even though i’m not sure if moss has any strengths!! haha! but honestly i thikn if we had a choice to pick up either hayneworth or peppers the choice would have to be hayneworth plug him in at nose tackle… seems to me from past drafts finding the rushing linebacker has a higher success rate then defensive tackle

  • MikeY55

    and another side note i think woodyard at safety would be an epic failure… the guy was so over hyped to chase down the run as a linebacker it would be hard to tell a guy with his reckless style of play to sit back and play the pass first

  • http://broncotalk.net Ian Henson

    Am I wrong or was Jamie Winborn the leading tackler on the Broncos last season. I could have swore that he was.

  • http://myspace.com/paraleipsis jchase8410

    If so Ian, it was by default. All of our solid defensive players were out half the season nursing injuries. As a veteran journeyman, he better make the most tackles when everybody else is on the sideline…not an impressive feat IMO.

  • flbronc

    i’m good (and not suprised) with the cuts made. i’d be cool with peppers if he comes at a decent price and a decent contract. i hope we stay away from haynesworth. didnt he have another arrest issue in the last couple of months? dont need that.

    i’m curious about x’s comment on getting some more picks. where are we going to get them from? it seems like we are cutting people left and right- 11 in the last 2 weeks…. who is left, and is expendable, to trade for picks? or is he hinting that we are going to attempt to trade back for more picks?

  • http://birty.blogspot.com mikebirty

    i’m with that guy who said that thing about resigning foxworth.

    Face it. Anyone on defense not called champ or d.j. is on the cutting or trading block. And both of them are looking iffy. The defensive personnel will be completely different next year. Even the rotation players need refreshing. And with all due respect to jamie winborn i liked what he did but if he’s your leading tackler and defensive mvp then you’re in trouble.

  • http://www.ihatenatewebster.com Broncoireland

    i think there are more changes on the way- i think bly will be asked to restructure big time and if he doesn’t he’ll be traded for a 5th, 4th at best. Free agents i feel will be brought in for the D line and safety position- very few if any rookies make an impact at these positions in their first 2 years, i think we’ll go for quality starters who won’t break the bank- Phillips from the bucs, maybe trade for a NT- very hard to find and i think there will be at least 2 linebackers drafted and a rb in the first 3 rounds- Shonn Greene would be my pick- these 2 positions are the easy transitions to the pro level- guys are asking on here id Webster is coming back- he’s unrestricted FA- Thank god for that and we all know he would be Number 1 on McD’s list of trash to dump!!

  • olen

    Is there a thought that some of these players that are let go may come back at a cheaper ticket . I am sure there is a limit on how much can be spent . The Broncos are able to squeeze the dollar to get the most . It seems that the guys that did the shopping have been dismissed and new hopefully as good people will do the right thing. The market is out there lets see how smart of a shopper the Broncos are.

  • http://BroncoTalk.net Mr.East

    If we don’t get Raji in the first round then its Knowshown or trade down. To draft Rey Mauluaga with the 12th is useless. Rey isn’t a bad player but he’s not worth the 12th overall pick, USC players are overrated. Just watch Clay Matthews will be better than Brian Cushing and Rey Rey.

    And for the love of God! Woodyard is not a starter. He provides good depth and special teams but thats about it. Also give Dre’ Bly a break! He was the defensive MVP of Denver this year, given thats not hard on this team, but he played better than everyone else.

    Also if Denver stays 4-3 it wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world seeing how the Giant’s defense is a 4-3.

    Don’t give in to these huge free agents. Haynesworth is not worth the 10 million a year he wants and Peppers isn’t going to go anywhere for cheap. Denver doesn’t need to be like the Redskins and sign huge free agents and draft overrated players. Look where that gets them.

  • http://broncotalk.net Ian Henson

    Karlos Dansby and possibly Phillip Buchanon are expected to be tagged today.

  • http://BroncoTalk.net Mr.East

    Phillip Buchanon gets beat more than a redheaded step child. Dansby is a stud but its hard to say whether he’s just having a contract year boom.

    According to Schefter (so its true) Denver has cleared up 22 million in cap space. McDaniels and Xanders are creating room for improvement, lets hope they make the right moves.

  • http://broncotalk.net Ian Henson

    East-

    I’m tired of taking a chance of drafting defensive people in the draft, hoping that they can start, they take forever to develop and in reality when was the last time we got someone great defensively in the draft? Dumervil? Before that it was Darrent Williams and prior to that D.J. Williams. We need a pass rush and even if we trade up to get the next LT it’s going to be 2011 before we see anything out of him.

    I also have a sweet spot in my heart for Dre Bly, he performs very well in Champ’s absence. I do think that a lot of his downfall is a direct result of the line being a second from a sack every play. In that respect, I can deal with rookie corners, linebackers and safeties (I thought Josh Bell played exceptionally well for instance, though Jack Williams only looked impressive in the preseason).
    That leaves us with the only free agency as an option for defensive lineman. Whether we go 5-2/3-4 or stay 4-3, I’m thinking that the thought pattern will be get a line through free agency and draft linebackers. Remember that Nolan was the coach the last time Denver had a great linebacking corps (Mecklenburg, Fletcher, Brooks and Croel). He’s done well consistently at evaluating young linebackers.

  • http://broncotalk.net Ian Henson

    East –

    That’s not including the first round of cuts. But yeah, 22-million is very exciting to have. Correll Buckhalter will not be resigned by the Eagles and I like Derrick Ward (though injuries are a concern), I can only imagine him swapping downs with Ryan Torain and or Peyton Hillis.

    I’m still trying to figure out the final cap number, but I think that we’re somewhere near $31 million. With Champ Bailey and D.J. Williams taking up a large chunk of our current salaries.

  • kerry

    everybody calm down. getting rid of all these DT’s clearly shows the direction McDaniels is gonna go in the draft. the release of DT’s is eveidence that the D-line, not the LB crew, is gonna be addressed.

    Mr East:

    thank you for saying that Maualuga is overrated. i dont know why nobody else can see that. he definetly isnt worth the 12th pick. BJ Raji is the guy. if he isnt available then Malcolm Jenkins would be a nice CB turned FS. or Knowshown Moreno. maybe even Tyson Jackson out of LSU. he is the 3-4 DE type.

    and why is everyone saying put Woodyard at safety?? he played at safety this year and sucked bad at it. there literally isnt a safety on this team right now can be a starter anywhere else.

  • NathanH

    Haynesworth isn’t realistic at all. I don’t think he wants to come play NT, he really strikes me as a guy looking for the paycheck and then his production will fall off. He also doesn’t have the ideal size for the 3-4 unless he was willing to play DE.

    And for those saying Boss could start at OLB need to read up on the 3-4 a little. I think he’ll still be cut, but if not, he’ll se time and ILB, likely with DJ.

    DJ could possibly play the outside because of his speed. I’ve always thought he should of been sent in blitz packages a lot more the past few seasons because it seems like every time he does he sneeks in and puts pressure on. But ideally, he doesn’t have the size and ILB isn’t the same as 4-3 MLB entirely, and I think his strengths play to ILB a lot more that OLB given the new system.

    My free agent wish-list:
    Canty(good 3-4 DE)
    Gabe Watson(if he’s tendered for anything but a 1st or 2nd)
    Jonathan Vilma(him and DJ as ILB’s would be nasty, great chemistry too)
    Jim Leonhard(showed a lot of promise for Baltimore in post season)

    than draft hopefully Maybin/Orakpo/Brown(i really think Raji will go before us) to fill an OLB spot. Leaving us with:

    Canty(305)/Watson(325)/Thomas(300)
    Rookie/DJ Williams/Jonathan Vilma/Jarvis Moss
    Champ/Leonhard/?/Dre(if he resturctures)

    I think it’d be a lot better to bring in a few(hopefully all of em) of these guys for cheaper and fill starting spots that need to be re-filled rather than bringing in Peppers and a huge price and maybe getting one other starter.

    We should try and get Fred Taylor too, ESPN was saying there won’t be much of a market for him. He’s still got a good year left in his tank and allows us to hold of on RB in the draft for this year.

    If we take a RB in the first my whole view and optimism of McDaniels will be shattered. Had to get that out, haha. Can’t wait for more cuts though, thank for the article.

  • Jordan C

    I agree with Ian about waiting for Defensive starters to develop. Defensive linemen historically take a long time to develop into impact players. Linebackers and safeties do not. Look at linebackers Willis, Beeson, and Mayo among others. Since there are no safeties worth 1-12, then it will be a linebacker or running back.

    I agree with BroncoIreland that Defensive line will definitely be addressed in FA. They’ll be looking for D-linemen who have been trained in the 3-4 and can make an impact right away. D-linemen can then be drafted in early rounds next year and can develop over a few years (I’m thinking of Terrance Cody NT, especially).

    Peppers and Haynesworth will command the highest FA prices and are the biggest potential busts. Not worth the risk. I agree with NathanH that there’s no way to convince Haynesworth to play a low stat position like NT.

    I’m curious too about the professor’s comments about more picks. Trading down is usually only decided upon on draft day or even at the moment of drafting, if the player they want isn’t available. I’m assuming that they’ll be looking to trade away a big name player or two. I’m still predicting that they’ll try to trade Champ – and will, if the price is right. I concede to several people’s comments that maybe Graham will stay. I also think that they’ll try to trade M Thomas as well. He’s a penetrating 1-gap DT that won’t make the transition to a stout 2-gap DE (they could try for a 1-gap 3-4, but we’ll see).

    kerry – I understand that Maualuga may not be the best value at pick 12, but I don’t see many people saying that Tyson Jackson is either. I like Jackson, too, but again, D-linemen don’t have an immediate impact. Especially since he’d be transitioning from the 4-3 to 3-4. Trading down for these guys might be an option, but you risk losing either or both to the Chargers and/or the Jets, who pick shortly after 12. They’re also possible teams for picking a running back, so maybe the Broncos trade down to the mid 20’s and take who’s left out of Moreno, Maualuga, Jacksonl, a CB, or even a safety. I’m not sure. But if they don’t trade, I can still see them taking Moreno or reaching for Maualuga who will have a more immediate impact than Jackson.

  • NathanH

    I really think Rey’s gonna bust. I really don’t think he has the speed a lot of the priemere young backers like Beason, Willis etc have. The main difference in the NFL is the speed adjustment, and I think his stock will fall if he doesn’t run a strong 40 at the combine and his pro day.

  • Katch22

    I Love the cuts so far!!! I was a big hater on DRob and John Deer. Was kind of surprised by Win, just for depth. I am hoping that we pick up S Brown cut from the Bears. He has some injury concerns but would come at a decent price. I’m more concerned about what we do in FA due to the fact it will completly alter what we do in the draft. Can’t wait for FA to begin. McD and X have my vote for setting us up for success!

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