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Published on 08/31/2009 at Mon Aug 31 20:12.
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Kyle Orton jogs onto the field prior to the game against the Chicago Bears at INVESCO Field at Mile High.  (Photo by Doug Pensinger/Getty Images)

Kyle Orton jogs onto the field prior to the game against the Chicago Bears at INVESCO Field at Mile High. (Photo by Doug Pensinger/Getty Images)

There isn’t much of a split amongst the fans of those harbingers from Dove Valley: Trading Jay Cutler was a mistake, but now we hate him, Josh McDaniels may be a genius, but I ain’t seein’ it, Mike Shanahan may have been a better option as head coach this season and Kyle Orton sucks…

Or does he?

Or do Broncos fans just want him to suck?

Here’s the thing folks, short of busting a ligament in his finger Orton may have finished Sunday night with one of the better performances in the preseason. Completing 12/16 for 75% is no easy feat, particularly with Brandon Marshall and Jabar Gaffney sidelined and the offensive line forgetting it was a professional football unit. Yeah, it’s preseason, but if it’s only preseason, then why all the concern with the Broncos quote/unquote ‘sucking’ so bad? HUH!

What else needs to be said? As it stands Orton is still rated number four amongst preseason quarterbacks for completion percentage. This is despite throwing a left handed pass, despite his three interception game against the San Francisco 49ers… As good as Cutler did, rookie signal caller Tom Brandstater almost finished with a better stat line.

I’m just saying Bronco fans, that’s the deal with Kyle Orton… He’s not as bad as you want him to be.

“Here’s the Deal Denver,” is a new column that I will use sporadically throughout the season whenever we need a little sense knocked back into us. Looking forward to what you have to say in the comments Nation!

  • Isaiah Kyler

    Kyle Orton … You know if he comes in and manages the game, controls the clock, and manages to keep the ball in the Broncos hands … what more can you ask of the guy! The preseason is the time to work on skills, try different things and to focus on certain areas … now we know that the running game has not been a focus in the preseason, but we know it could be esp with Moreno.

    I think this article is right … with all the drama that occurred in the off-season certain vocal fans are looking for a scapegoat so that all their anger can be focus on him (McD or Orton it does not matter) This is brought on mostly by the media, but this is no excuse the fair weather bronco fans need to buck up and let the season start before they jump off the band wagon.

    This is just the preseason … so RELAX!

  • http://broncomadness.com Garrett Barnes

    I’ve been saying for a little while now that if Orton fails, it’s mostly the fans fault.

    I know that sounds screwy… what did we do?

    But when Orton was traded to us, it’s as if all the fans were against him just because he wasn’t Jay Cutler! wth? He’s still a Bronco! Hate on McD if you are going to be angry with someone. I liked one of the commentators comment last night during the game about how Orton is like this innocent bystander who has been dragged into this Cutler drama.

  • Isaiah Kyler

    You may not agree with the choices McDaniels made and you may hate him, which is your right; however to think that he is only going to be here for one season is a pipe dream. Pat Bowlen is smarter than that and Josh is here to stay for a while … so you might as well get use to it!

  • broncoNM
  • Dave

    I’d love to know where these numbers are coming from. Looking at the sortable stats on NFL.com, Orton is ranked 87th in QB rating for the preseason at 61.5. Cutler is ranked 42nd.

    …not trying to make any point other than that this business about him being “top 4″ seems way off. Go Broncos!

  • http://broncotalk.net Ian Henson

    Dave-

    Did you catch that too? I’m sorry, I’ve been in New York too long and mixed up completion percentage and QB rating. Way to go though, you get the no prize, it’s not worth much, but to me it is sentimental.

  • DC

    I hope they are “saving it” till the season bc this team looks to be no threat to anyone.

  • http://cdn0.sbnation.com/profile_images/111140/La_La_Mascot.jpg WhidbeyBronco

    Ian… Try “NEVER MIND”

  • real talk

    sorry…I cant drink the koolaid on this one. completions are fine, but I didnt see many opportunities to put up points while Kyle was on the field and chicago’s d was surprising avg. I hope KO’s hand gets better fast and they can work this out. they are going to see teams with much better line play this season than the Chibears (O&D)and are going to need to be more aggressive

  • Dave

    Haha…yeah, definitely a big difference between QB rating and completion pct. Personally, I’m in the “wait until the real games start before you freak out” category. I’m hopeful, but not optimistic, I guess you could say. The penalties and turnovers are horrifying. Those are two pretty huge things to fix before they play Cincy.

    Part of me still believes that the offense should only be slightly worse than last year and that the defense looks a lot better. And hey…at least we can punt the ball out inside the 5 yard line! :-)

  • Paul

    This is absolutely ridiculous. Orton is terrible, at best he is a solid backup. The reason for the high completion percentage is due to the absurd amount of dump passes he makes. The guy can’t throw the ball more than 10yrds with any accuracy, as proven in the 3 preseason games. If the Broncos get in a 3rd an 8 or more situation we might as well bring on the punting unit because there is no way we will get a 1st down. Teams aren’t scared of the deep ball so they bring everyone up to the line stuff the run and stuff our 3yrd passes.

    The main problem is we have 2 backup QB’s and a rookie. We’re screwed. We’ll have a better chance with Simms than Orton and at this point I would say Brandstater is a better option than Orton. At least Simms and Brandstater can throw the ball vertically, and be athletic in the pocket. Anyone wonder why, Orton was the only QB on our team this preseason not to throw 1 deep ball? Its because he can’t, its not like we are saving it for the regular season it is just because he can’t do it.

    The Patriot offense does have a lot of dinks and dunks but it also has a fair amount of vertical passing. The reason their offense works so well is because opposing defenses are afraid of the deep ball that Brady can deliver. Dinking and dunking will get us killed, we need someone back there that can at least put the thought of vertical passing into their minds.

  • DC

    So off topic but I am in the process of buying a siberian husky, a male thats black and white with blue eyes and was wondering if any of my fine Denver Bronco fans (the finest fans in all of sports) could help me name the pup. I got a few names in mind, gauge, dehani, gunner, gnarly, and moreno. What do you guys think? Sorry my excitement is kinda lame. Any suggestions could help, thanks.

  • Isaiah Kyler

    How about McDaniels!

  • DC

    No way Isaiah.

  • bw53

    DC

    Bailey (like Camp Bailey or Bailey Colorado) dual Colorado tie

  • dustfan

    Paul,

    Orton has 30 career TDs and 8 of them are for 20 or more yards (65 longest). Sure some of that is YAC but he is not completely devoid of the ability to throw it down the field as you insinuate. Plus he didn’t exactly play in a pass friendly system in Chicago or have the talent at WR he has here.

    Now, I’m not completely sold on Orton as he has almost as many INTs as TDs. Add that to the fact he will be be throwing it more and that does bring up a red flag. However, I am at least willing to give him a chance. He will have far more talent on the OL and at WR (if Marshall ever gets his head screwed on right) than he had in Chicago. I am not going to form an opinion of him based on 3 preseason games especially considering the injury issues. Anyway, considering he plays for “my” team I am hopeful he will succeed and Moreno & Marshall can make him a better QB, not like some other “fans” that seem to want him to fail (to prove how “knowledgeable” they are that they said he sucked).

  • Tom9798

    Remember all that I have said for month’s is that we would go 11-5 . . . . that confidence is starting to waver in a serious way . . . .

    DC . . . . I agree . . . I believe in the eye’s of our schedule . . . we have become one of the “easy wins” . . . and any team that loses to us will be real upset . . . .

    Dave . . . . agree with you too . . . I am very hopeful . . . but am losing my optimism more quickly than I would have hoped . . . .

    Paul . . . . agree with you also . . . Orton is a good backup QB . . . until someone who can actually can throw a fifty yard touchdown pass while being flushed out of the pocket . . . . maybe Simm’s ?. . . . more promise than Orton . . .

    Simm’s seemed to have more composure . . . better footwork . . . . definitely a better arm and more mobility . . . .

    Our QB situation leaves a lot to be desired . . . . .

    Our defense . . . I’ve read many blogs that have said our defense looks great! . . . . compared to what? . . . . we are 0-3 . . . lost to the 4-12 49’er’s . . . let both Seattle and Chicago score 27 points on us . . . . and we have no turnover’s . . . .

    What exactly is so great about our defense so far? . . . . . a few good pass rushes . . . . maybe a pass someone knocked down? . . . .

    When we play the elite team’s of the NFL on our schedule . . . . I certainly hope we look as great as we have so far . . . . .

    But I’m starting to feel that my 11-5 prediction is kind of a stretch . . . . I still rub my Bob Swenson signed pennant before every game . . . . I have always been a die-hard Bronco’s fan . . . .

    Just don’t like to be embarrassed . . . . sure you know what I mean . . . .

  • Tom9798

    A little clarification . . . . when I said that our QB situation was in dire straights . . . .

    Right now our starting QB is Tom “deer in the headlight’s” Brandstater . . . . . that should clarify my statement . . . .

  • Bryan

    I don’t think Orton needs to bomb it down the field 10 times a game, but a couple times just to keep the defense honest is enough. Even if he doesn’t get it close, it should help open up the dump outs, and WR screens. And if we’re talking a 30 yard deep ball is the best he’s got, let me know cuz I can throw it 35 yards. I have no problem with getting paid league minimum

  • BroncoinVA9986

    I don’t know how this season will turn out but all I do know is that if you play good defense and don’t turn over the ball you win most of the time..I don’t know I understand that orton is no Tom Brady but we need to give him a chance. Maybe people hate him because of his neckbeard. Atleast he shaved that. I think we will be a 5 or 6 out of 10 this year not anything special just retooling for making our run for the AFC west title

  • roshon2411

    If Orton is not successful it in no way is the fans fault. All blame on performance is pinned on the team, McD, and Orton, weather it be success or failure. He might be an innocent bystander in McJaygate but he’s never been a good NFL QB. Completing 75% of his passes last game was not a difficult feat when he threw one ball further than 10 yards. I’ve heard time and time again, that our offense wasn’t good last year because we couldn’t score. Well Orton has lead them to one TD drive in 6 1/2 quarters. His 4 picks are tops in the pre-season. He’s 78th in % of throws that are for a first down. Out of 58 throws he has one over 20+ yards. Out of the 118 QB’s to play this pre-season, he’s 88th at a rating of 61.5. I could have faith in McDaniels as a coach, but don’t because he thinks he can turn Kyle Orton into a productive QB. He is at best a backup QB and always will be.

  • anthony33

    Does anyone know what the deal is with O’Connell, and did he clear waivers?

    Don’t know much about him, but a few people on this site feel it would be good to get him. Is he any good?

  • MiamiMike

    Tom 9798,

    In a positive note it is great to see that at some point you picked Denver to go 11-5. The fact you were thinking positive is a good thing. But 11-5 is a stretch considering we have 44-45 new players. We are switching to a 3-4 defense we have a new head coach and a new offense to learn. A new defensive coach with a very hard system to learn. We do not have the players (yet) needed for a 3-4 and that is not a fault of the new coaches. This defense had to change it’s scheme seeing that it was at the bottom of the league the last couple of years. If Shanahan had made the change 3 years ago and (STUCK) with one defensive coach long enough to run it we would not be dealing with this now.

    In preseason so far I like what I have see. Yes we are still a long ways away to being solid in all areas but we had 7 sacks in 2 games and that came mostly against 1st string offenses. Our defense is gang tackling and swarming ball carriers. We have given up the big play on 3rd down but considering all the new players and players that are playing a new position I think the guys are doing a good job. The most important thing the players have bought into this new 3-4 scheme and say they love it.
    Playing the schedule we have Dallas Steelers,Giants,Patriots,Philly Skins, Ravens is the worst time ever considering all our change and these teams all run the ball very well. I was born in Denver and will always be a fan. Yes McDaniels mad mistakes that will hurt us. But Shanahan made MANY mistakes that got this team to where it is. His defense and Special Teams were ranked near or at the bottom for the past few years. IF HE HAD FIXED THESE AREAS YEARS BACK we would be far better off. The change McDaniels made should have been done all ready. This year will be painful for sure but at least someone said enough with getting beat by 20-30 points in a game.

    the one thing I hope for is we can trade Marshall to a weak team that will not have a good year and we get a #1 draft pick. We then can go into 2010 with two 1st round picks again. With Oklahoma’s and Texas q.b.’s being in the draft we would at least have a shot at one of them (IF) needed. Trading Marshall is fine IF we get the 1st round pick needed. That pick would go a long way in making up for this years mistakes.

  • coskibum

    I’ll never forget the day we traded Cutler. I got a call from my brother-in-law (Bear Fan) laughing his ass off at me. He said we must be the most stupid franchise in the league to let go a pro-bowl quarterback for a guy who can’t throw more than 20 yards. He said they were glad to give Orton away with draft picks for a real gun slinger.

    I guess only time will tell if McDaniel’s:

    a. Can make Orton farther
    b. Scheme trumps talent
    c. Bring us to the promised land

  • robtink242

    I’m sorry Orton sucks there’s no changing that. He has a high completion percentage because most of his passes where screens. That’s one reason we suffered during first/second and long. McD is an ass. The screen was effective in NE because there run game sucked and there screens went mostly to Wes Welker. If I’m not mistaken Stokely is similar or better than Welker. Then his old QB Mr. Brady through plenty of deep ones to Mr. Moss. Fortunately for McD he has Mr. Marshall. Then he had Gaffeny as second receiver but he clearly cant walk in Mr. Royal’s shoes.
    So how is it we suck, we have the ground game that the Pats lack, three better better starting receivers, a strong arm mobile QB in Cutler, and the best O-line in all of football. All he had to do is Fix the Defense but its obviously harder than it looks. I’m holding McD accountable for this season he was given everything he needed to succeed.

  • http://ttmt.com T-Money

    TOM9798~

    I’m with you man. I agree with everybody that believes that we are better than everybody is making us out to be.

    I’m so sick of hearing all this crap. Everyone of you guys keep saying “it’s only the pre-season” but you are crying you self to sleep at night thinking that the Broncos are going 0-16.

    With the exception of Seattle’s first drive our Defense looks about 100x better than it did last year. The 2 minute drill needs so work but you have to give these guys a lot of credit. Rattled or not we held Cutler to 2 consecutive 3 and outs which is about 2 more than we had last year at all.

    53 players on the roster and 11 of the on the field and it takes all of them together to make the magic happen. Where the hell did all the faith go? Honestly? Just keep the saying “any given sunday” in the back of your heads.

  • http://www.webmdreviews.com Robert

    Would it make everyone feel better if the Broncos were 3 – 0 right now? How about if we had outscored our opponents by totals of 66 – 26 through those 3 games? What about if Kyle Orton was a combined
    18 for 21, 270 yards, 2 tds and 0 ints?

    Would those numbers make all you fair weather fans who are actually rooting for McD and Orton to suck this year shut up? I bet you would be sipping some serious kool aid right now instead of crying about a guy who was traded 6 months ago.

    Well, those are the stats of the Detroit Lions and Jon Kitna through their first 3 preseason games in 2008… You know… the year they went 0 – 16.

  • robtink242

    this team will eventually be turned over to Tom Bradstater. I hope this season. He’s a rookie no denying that but he plays with way more life than Orton. Simms may have one the starting job do to the things mention by Tom 9798. But truth is he’s injuried and may have lost that chance. Similar to what happen with Troy Smith and Joe Flacco. But I see the big play potential in Bradstater. Hopefully he moves up on the depth chart at the end of the pre-season.

  • John80224

    Nice going, Bowlen. At the end of the day, we know what rolls downhill, but the final blame comes back to the top.

    McD was ruined about a month after he got here. It’s gonna take 2-14 before there’s much chance Bowlen will knee-jerk and get rid of him this year, but McD will always be remembered as the guy who ran off Cutler. It will be even worse if Cutler lives up to the potential that he looks to have.

    Not trying to rehash the blame game. Bottom line is that years from now, most of the NFL fans will only remember there was a spat and the QB was gone with another in his place who gets phrases like “game manager” and “serviceable” attached to him.

    If he rights the ship and we start winning, that’ll erase much of the bad taste, but we’re in for a less interesting performer in the most interesting position on the field.

    Looking on the bright side, one of the least interesting positions looks very strong! Nice punting game! Sadly I fear we’ll see a lot more of that kid this season.

  • KMA

    DC touched on this briefly….

    “I hope they are “saving it” till the season bc this team looks to be no threat to anyone.”

    Doesn’t anyone else consider the thought that we are (unfortunately) Patriots west? Belichick’s mantra, is essentially don’t show anything you don’t have to. examples: injury reports, status of Marshall, play calling. I honestly think that McD doesn’t give a flying Rip about the 0-4 pre-season record. When McD was asked in the early part of training camp about the 3-4 defense, his reply was (paraphrase) We will prepare each week for the opponent we are facing the following week. I read that to mean, you will see nothing of interest in the pre-season.
    And to take it a step further, I don’t think we will ever see more than what it takes to beat a team. If all we have to do to beat the Bengals in week 1 is a steady diet of dink and dunk, then guess what, I think that’s all we will see.
    I don’t think Orton is nearly as bad a Bronco fans have made him out to be. I Also (going on a limb here) don’t think that half of the injuries are as bad as they let on either.
    go back, look at the last 3-4 seasons of how the Patriots did things, and i honestly think you will start to see very real similarities. Good God he even wears the HOODIE!!!
    I know this may be a stretch for some to read, but just consider it.
    Don’t jump off the bridge just yet.

  • John80224

    Robert, it wouldn’t make me feel better. It’s funny you mention Kitna, though as Orton will likely be remembered as roughly in that arena. Don’t get me wrong, Orton’s a good guy and far better athlete than I’ve ever dreamed of being, but there is little on the turf in the preseason or his history that shows he’ll ever hold a candle to Cutler in at least raw talent and by extension “wow factor”.

    T-MONEY – Faith is blindly given to gods, but earned by people. McD simply does not have a track record to be given faith yet. He may someday, but not as of Sept. 1. I HOPE we’ll do well, but I just don’t see it yet.

    Game management can win games. All the penalties could just be part of the settling into a new offense. The D looks no worse and got some pressure on the QB. I’m not proclaiming there is no way this can turn out good, but much of what we once put faith in, is resting in his new mansion and splitting time at his steakhouse.

  • Steeplebomb

    John,
    I must disagree. No one knows how this season will turn out. That’s why they play the games. Objective examination and study can only take one so far. At some point you have to take a leap and GUESS how you think the team will do. Is it blind faith to think the team will have a winning record? Possibly. But I think assuming that this team will go 0-16, 2-14 or whatever falls to the other extreme. Its unreasonable and (I feel) doesn’t really match reality. The defense is looking MUCH better than last year. Our running game should be much more consistent. The AFC West looks really weak. No one is expecting anything from us this season. The bottom line is that a guess is a guess, and just because you predict the worst doesn’t make it any better.

  • http://www.webmdreviews.com Robert

    John80224, I don’t think anyone, especially me, is trying to say Orton is the answer. I’m just saying he isn’t the devil and I have never seen so many so called “fans” route against “their team” before. If the Bronco’s won their first 4 games and Orton led the league in qb rating, it seems like that would anger as many Bronco fans as it would please. I don’t understand where this weird obsession with negativity and rooting for a poor performance so someone can say “I told you everything sucks” comes from.

    My guess would be the people who are the most negative about the situation, probably have the most negativity in their own lives right now and this is just an outlet for them to show some frustration.

    Hell, the bottom line is, it is a game that doesn’t give a rats ass about you or me. The coaches, players, executives, owners, none of them know who I am or who you are. So we might as will relax a little bit, focus on the positives and enjoy the game.

    What are the positives?

    1. Orton is not and never will be as good as Cutler. That being said the offense will easily put up as many points this year as last year.

    2. The defense will probably be average at best but that is still an improvement over last year.

    3. Special teams is far better this year. You can’t count the Hester play, he does that to everyone.

    4. We are building a team first instead of me first atmosphere that was in place from the old regime. Placating your superstars worked for Shanahan in the beginning because the team was filled with standup guys. Elway, Sharpe, Davis, McCafferty, Smith, etc… As the next generation of players came into their own, things just got out of hand. Individual stats were focused on more than winning. How often did we hear Shanahan rave about how great their offense was (because of the yards gained) when in actuality it was a sub par offense that struggled to put points on the board. How often did we hear him rave about how great Cutler was and how Cutler could do no wrong and then we would watch the most ridiculous interceptions being thrown? That was a problem that no longer affects this organization.

    5. The new head coach might not fire the defensive coordinator every year and proclaim all the troubles to be his fault then draft a couple of high talent, low work ethic, character flawed athletes that nobody outside of the Bronco’s knows who is 3 or 4 years later (see Moss and Crowder).

  • John80224

    Hey Steeple,

    I’ll admit that I’m predicting 4-12, but in fairness, my mention of 2-14 was only to make a prediction of what would have to occur before McD would be be on the hotseat–not of what will transpire. As you rightly mention, there are so many variables that I only guess at the record.

    My fears come from what we’ve seen thus far and history. First year coaches seldom prosper. Our schedule starts fairly “easy”, but with the number of penalties we had, it feels like a team that’s still learning who it is and what its doing. And given that we’re doing it missing 2 of our 3 most talented skill players from last year (Cutler and likely Marshall–Champ’s still here!) there are just too many unknowns and worries for me to think it’s 3-0 in a month.

    Excepting the Chiefs who are trying to find themselves, too, and the Raiders who are, well, um, not even trying to do that, the rest of the schedule looks pretty brutal. We still have a talented O-line and the D does look like it can get more pressure. But coupling the unknowns and the bulk of the schedule, perhaps I’m just not spiritual enough, but I can’t put faith in a playoff run this year.

    As to QBs, I don’t think Orton is the worst to ever touch a pigskin, but I think there’s enough history for both QBs to state that we have less overall talent at that position this year than last.

  • http://broncotalk.net Ian Henson

    DC-

    Kyle (from this site) named my Great Dane puppy Bailey. I think it’s a great name, better for a girl though…

  • John80224

    Hey Robert,

    I see your point. But just to be clear–and you may already have taken it this way–I’m not rooting for 0-16 (or 4-12 as I predict). There are people to whom it is more important to prove their predictions right than see their team win, but I am not one of them and I’m guessing that for everyone seeing more gloom than sun, 2/3 of us still want us to win, but are just calling out what we (possibly wrongly) see as concerns.

  • John80224

    Ian – it’s a great dane? I don’t think the other dogs would snicker if you named it Ginger Snookypants! ;)

  • http://broncotalk.net Ian Henson

    I have the Broncos at 12-4/11-5 this season. Ludicrous, I know, if we win the games that we should win and Knowshon’s healthy the whole season… Short of a major injury I don’t see any reason why that isn’t possible. There’s only one person on the team that doesn’t want to play and I really like the swagger that the Broncos defense has when they’re all clicking. We’re literally going to give QB’s nightmares, look at what happened to Cutler (and it’s only preseason!).

  • TD30isMVP

    Dink and Dunk, you mean the West Coast offense, the most successful offense in the last 30 years? Orton will take shots down field and has the highlight films to prove it, we had another guy with a mediocre arm (and a penchant for throwing south-paw) that won us many games until he was replaced by Cutler, that guy came here with a horrible INT/TD ratio as well. Get off his case and root for the guys that actually want to play for our team and go to work. Long time Bronco fans remember when we were the whipping boys of this league and we still cheered week in and week out. Good Lord, Lions fans whine less and they haven’t had a hero since Sanders left. We have had a decade of average football while the Patriots “team first” attitude has brought championships even when they shipped the “me first” divas out of town. I would rather have a team of blue collar hard working ballers than me, me, me bawlers.

  • kerry

    Moreno is NOT gonna make us a contender on his own. stop hanging out on the MHR. opposing teams CLEARLY have nothing to fear from Orton so stacking the box is all a team has to do and Moreno will be shut down. our O-line is CLEARLY not on the same page and given the fact that McDaniels is running more of a power running game now and ONLY throwing in the ZBS on certain situation, our run game is gonna suffer tremendously.

  • http://broncotalk.net Ian Henson

    Kerry-

    I have been on MHR once in the last two years. Either way there’s no way that Moreno doesn’t succeed in Denver, nor do you have an evidence that he won’t it’s just an opinion. Moreno has a six yard average and looked better than any back so far that Denver has had in the preseason.

    In reality, what back DOESN’T do well in Denver let alone the first running back taken in the 2009 draft. The offensive line looks like it always has, they’ve just got to take care of those sloppy penalties.

    I hope that defenses start stacking the box, because Orton will pick them apart with his 7-8 yard passes. I don’t see them stacking the box though when they have to double cover Marshall and have to figure out how to stop Royal and Gaffney/Stokley. Oh yeah, we also have three running backs who are all just as capable at pass catching as they are running.

    I said it on Twitter, we’ve seen the Denver Broncos offense at full strength for less than six plays this preseason.

  • http://www.webmdreviews.com Robert

    One more thing to consider is 3 TE sets. Graham and Quinn are great blockers. Schef is a decent blocker. Schef is a great wr. Graham is an underrated receiver and Quinn looks like he can hold his own.

    I think it would be awesome for us to use some 3 TE sets with Hillis and Moreno in the back. We could run, screen, short throw, medium throw and play fake very well out of such a set.

  • Waylon

    Thanks for the objectivity Ian.

    TD30 is right on. Anyone who says that Orton sucks doesn’t understand that football is a team game and the QB is the unquestioned leader of the team. It’s not a contest to see who can throw the longest and prettiest pass. You need a qb who knows how to win, and Orton has won A LOT more games than Cutler.

    Orton may not have as strong an arm as Cutler, but so what? Orton can throw a long pass. Every QB on an NFL roster can throw a long pass. You don’t get drafted in the 1st-3rd rounds without a strong arm.

    You can’t win without a qb that commands the respect of his teammates and does everything it takes to win the game. Like him or not, Plummer led this team to a lot of wins, and I’ll take the Plummer era over the Cutler era everytime.

    Let’s go KO!

  • Dean

    Waylon,

    You just said football is a team game, but then you said Orton has won A LOT more games than Cutler. Would it be because the team(Bears) won A LOT more games because they were a better team? Would you blame Cutler for the Bears/Broncos game played in 2007 or credit Grossman with the win? I don’t recall his special teams mistakle leading to Devin Hester going nuts. I don’t think he was in on defense when Grossman led them down the field for the winning score.

    The big difference b/t the Plummer Era and the Cutler Era, Al Wilson.

    Kyle Orton hasn’t proven anything. He has the same amout of playoff wins as Culter.

  • Mike

    Waylon,

    So you’re saying that KO know’s how to win games..? Hmm.. I think the Bears D did most of the winning the last few years. And actually it is a contest to see who can throw the longest and prettiest ball.. haha, what do you think QB’s do all day at practice? Do you think they practice handing off all week..? Come on man, Jay C is a better QB than KO, it’s a simple fact. You can’t get mad at people for stating the reality. It’s not KO’s fault that all this is going on. I will root for him everytime, but I’m not going lie or spin the truth.. You’re not fooling anyone but yourself. The Bronco’s offense stayed within the top 2 or 3 ranking for pretty much the whole season last year.. I seriously doubt they will come anywhere close to that this year.. I’m just being a realist. The QB has a lot to do with how the offense performs, obviously..

  • Ashaman01

    Nope, he sucks still, and I really dont want him too. Oh right, great story McDaniels is a genius too? Good Call

  • Ashaman01

    Nope, he sucks still, and I really dont want him too. Oh right, great story McDaniels is a genius too? Good Call